The Official I LOVE/HATE shuttling thread

I -for one- am not calling lifts or shuttling lazy per se. Long downhill runs can be quite demanding! It seems to me though that there's a time and a place for shuttling... namely, on "downhill" courses/trails. If I had a bighit bike, i'd be using it on DH type terrain and try to avoid having to dodge climbers on predominantly XC trails.

 

I've ridden my Socom around at LPQ. 14 miles on my single-ring bike with a road cassette = not easy. Why did I do it? Training/getting a good workout.

The issue is "you shouldn't ride DH" vs. "you can't ride DH".

 

Put it this way

Why bring a gun to a knife fight.:?: Plain and simple you do not need a 40lb DH bike to ride San Juan.

I am not anti shuttle......When we go to Brianhead we shuttle to maximize our riding time.

 

Clarify, please.
Isn't shuttling the issue here? :?:

 

I couldn't agree more. Not just in mountain biking, but life in the US in general. As always, there are exceptions to the general rule though..... Putting on my nomex flame suit.:bang:

I say "live and let live", and be accountable for your own actions and consequences. Simple as that.

 

The trail doesn't say "you can't ride a DH bike". So people can walk around saying "you shouldn't ride a DH bike" on it, but it isn't going to matter. Yes, shuttling was the initial issue, but since shuttling and DH bikes are synonymous, the issue began to evolve.

I shuttled down San Juan once. Then I decided it would be more fun on the Yeti. But, who I am to tell people what to ride on a trail, so long as it's not prohibited.

 

I love to shuttle.... I leave a car at the top of San Juan and ride the SS up from the Ranger station

 

Since we are alking about SJT I'll chime in a bit WRT the shuttleer..

I think that one thing that shuttling does is increast the DH load on a trail.
Have you seen the corners on SJT lately? I doubt that these are caused by folks riding uphill, and they probably wouldn't be so bad if a shuttle wasn't available:?:

Now, I realize that there are bunches of you DHers who don't skid the trail and there are probably plenty of the non-DHers who do, but I can only surmise that if everyone had to ride up this particular trail it would be in better shape.

No facts to back this up of course, just a theory.

 

At the risk of sounding condescending, this debate/thread is pointless and amounts to nothing! Much more energy should be spent on educating naive, ignorant, inconsiderate and rude riders of all walks and genre's vs. debating dh vs. xc and climbing vs. shuttling, etc. That's so 2002!

We're all on the same boat and one and the same with slight variations. You don't like it, that's your problem and you need to figure out how to get over it.

 

Why bring a 40lbs DH bike to San Juan? Because you can! It's the American way!

 

Joe

don't tase me man! Did you let FYM out of jail:?:

 

Nah! We're having too much fun with him to let him out. He's a hoot and a hit around these parts so he stays, for now. :lol:

 

......

So people can walk around saying "you shouldn't ride a DH bike" on it, but it isn't going to matter.


just because you can do something doesn't mean you should......

Take sex change operations for example

 

I ride flat trails only then everybody is nice!

 

I have seen plenty of xc riders, skidding, littering and otherwise thrashing trails. Bad things happen when you stereotype large groups of people; Isnt that kind of what Hitler did?

 

I wish i could shuttle this website, it's definitely headed downhill!


Good points Steph!



shitty

 

you know if it wasnt for those people with the big tires we wouldn't have those big ruts. We should ban big bikes
a week later
you know if we didnt let all these XC bikes ride we wouldnt have these ruts
everyone should have to walk there bike downhill to prevent skidding
A week later
you know if we didnt have people spinning out while going uphill it wouldnt be so sandy everyone should have to walk there bike up hill.

Then what are we??? HIKERS !!!!!! NO GOOD HIKERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! moral of the story everyone sucks and thinks there shit doesnt stink, but it does, deal with it. Maybe there might be an out of control rider coming towards you one day, XC or Dh or whatever just get out of the way and dont let it ruin your day, the more legal restraints put on riding(any type of riding) the worse off all of us are.

(PS I enjoy hiking often, no offense to people who like to use there feet on trails)
even though if it wasn't for you hikers we wouldn't have foot prints chattering our suspension :wave:

 

Suffering to the top of a climb makes the descent that much more delicious. Just like how the sun seems just a tad bit sunnier after a rainy day.

I believe that there is nothing inherently wrong with the concept of shuttling or taking a lift to the top of a hill. It actually is an important aspect of our sport because it allows many newbies, who would otherwise be too intimidated by the climbs, to enjoy the sport and get hooked. Some of them will be DH riders only but others will eventually build thier fitness levels to the point where climbing becomes enjoyable to them.

I highly doubt that anyone would find me and my fiancee shuttling a hill controversial since she is just a beginner and is so terrified by descents that she is actually slower going down a trail than up (and when we ride together I go at her pace so I'm around to help or give advice when she needs it). The debate around shuttling always seems to include the terms "armor clad" and "40+ lbs bikes". Lets face it the real "controversy" regarding shuttling multiuse trails is the SPEED at which you come down any given trail. If there was a speed limit of 8-12mph that was enforced on a trail, most shuttlers would find little use for armor, big bikes, but most likely they wouldn't ride there.

The whole thrill and enjoyment of riding DH (on any type of bike, armor or not) is the speed at which you come down. The measure of a rider's skill is how quickly they can negotiate technical terrain and tight switch backs to get to the bottom. The big bikes, big brakes, big tires, armor, full-face, etc all enable faster speeds (and more fun) over rougher terrain. Anything that gets in the way of that thrill, be it a hike-a-bike uphill or having to stop and let a group of 20 hikers through when your in the middle of a technical descent sucks.

Put that type of riding on multiuse trails that are also popular with hikers, equestrians, and xc riders it should be no suprise that controversy exists.

One thing to keep in mind is our general tendancy to only think of things from our own point of view. The late George Carlin articulated it best: "did you ever notice that when you're driving, everyone going faster than you is a crazy idiot, and everyone going slower than you is a f**king a**hole?".

All trail users will have a tendency to believe that their method of enjoyment is "most valid" and will tend to discount how their behavior impacts the enjoyment of the trail experience of others who are not of their same ilk. Its human nature; in everyone's perfect world, they would get to enjoy the trail without having to worry about anyone else being on it.

Its no secret that some bikers (regardless of riding a DH, FR, or XC bike) descend too fast. They blow out corners and are a danger to other users comming up the trail and give ALL cyclists a bad name. Many riders "think" they are skilled enough to stop or avoid a collision in an emergency, but in reality, reaction times and physics often dictate otherwise. Using a bell helps give advanced warning to others of your presence, but does not relieve riders of their responsibility to ride in control (i.e. able to stop for unexpected obstacles) and yield to other trail user groups.

Like it or not, mountain bikes are on the bottom of the yield totem pole. We are required to yield to all other trail users. DH'ers and XC'ers are lumped into the same category by other trail users and land managers. If we as a group cannot ride with respect for other users, and without damaging the trails we will get kicked out as a group (hence the rift between adrenaline junkies and weight weenies).

Unfortuantely there are too few legal areas where DH'ers can ride without affecting other trail uers. Until, the powers that be, recognize that DH riding does warrant some bicycle-only, one-way trails, the reality is that we all have to share the trails. The more we can understand about the trail experience of other user groups, in general the more considerate we become.

drc

 

nicely put