surftime
New Member
Dont worry, by the time they are done with lizards it wont be singletrack anymore. Unless single track stands for a 10 foot wide cleared trail
this is what I am worried about - that trail was sweet as is and didnt need much work
Status of Lizards in LCWP (not yet opened)
- Thread starter dcrfx
- Start date
this is what I am worried about - that trail was sweet as is and didnt need much work
Andy
Member
Dont worry, by the time they are done with lizards it wont be singletrack anymore. Unless single track stands for a 10 foot wide cleared trail
Isn't that what it use to be many years ago?
I spoke with a ranger a couple weeks ago and he said they are only changing the beginning of it (which was pretty wide anyway), according to him they are leaving the remainder of the canopy singletrack as-is even though it does not meet OC Parks minimum height requirements, apparently the width is fine.
jeepr84
Member
My apologies for my ignorance about Strava ......with that said, under six minutes on a multi-directional, multi-use trail, of that length, just seems irresponsible at best. Particularly based on the fact that the final 1/3 of that trail has numerous blind turns. My concerns about that, to me, seem anything less than civil. Perhaps I should be put on the shelf with Chopper...a spot I'll proudly take.
TrailBlaza
New Member
- Joined
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I have yet to seriously injure any hiker wink wink
I know when to push it and when to not push it. The chances of a hiker going uphill on Lizards on a Tuesday morning at 7am when it is 45 degrees out is pretty low.
herzalot
Well-Known Member
Dont worry, by the time they are done with lizards it wont be singletrack anymore. Unless single track stands for a 10 foot wide cleared trail
I know it's sacrilege to you Mo, but I actually think Lizards was too narrow. I don't like hitting my bars on all of the shrubbery when I ride, and I had relatively narrow bars. The trail had some nice flow, other than that. I know you like trails that are bushwhacking, but I prefer a bit of flow, ya'know. I don't have a problem with a 5' wide trail, if it has some flow and speed.
Disclaimer: Mo is now ten times the rider I could ever hope to be, so my comparative opinion doesn't mean much.
dstepper
(R.I.P.) Over the hill
Years back my bars clipped a bush on Lizards that had a bee hive in it. The rider that followed be got over 50 stings because he did not hear me yell "bees" keep riding. He stopped at first sting. Another casualty of riding listening to music.
Dean
Dean
rjcsocal
Member
You're right Herz, the first part of the trail had more flow and only one flat, 90-degree turn in it. The bottom half is full of them -- and a low-hanging branch you had to watch out for as well. I'm sure the brush will be quite a bit wider at first, but will hopefully grow in a bit. No need to worry about poison oak or bee hives (great story Dean) when it reopens.
There's going to be a lot more traffic. It's going to probably be a friendlier climb, although it will be heavily traveled as (and considered by most) a one-way like fenceline. At least fenceline has some decent sight lines to see and bee seen. I think foot traffic will increase significantly too.
I'm tempted to go out for a trail run some late afternoon and take a look at progress.
There's going to be a lot more traffic. It's going to probably be a friendlier climb, although it will be heavily traveled as (and considered by most) a one-way like fenceline. At least fenceline has some decent sight lines to see and bee seen. I think foot traffic will increase significantly too.
I'm tempted to go out for a trail run some late afternoon and take a look at progress.
Hate to burst the fence line one-way myth...I haven't been on it yet in the last 12 months without either encountering or having to wait for a full-ear-bud-wearing rider going the not-as-fun way. 7am, dusk, weekday, weekend, hot, cold, windy...never seems to matter to the person not paying attention that is startled when they charge around a corner to find me stopped and they have no clue.
I see a future conflict with Lizards in that there are likely to be quite a few who hike/run up Lower Laurel that will decide to hike up Lizards to the rock outcropping, right through the areas of limited sight lines. I'm sure those who have ridden in Lizards in the olden days have encountered full-ear-bud-wearing types coming up.
I see a future conflict with Lizards in that there are likely to be quite a few who hike/run up Lower Laurel that will decide to hike up Lizards to the rock outcropping, right through the areas of limited sight lines. I'm sure those who have ridden in Lizards in the olden days have encountered full-ear-bud-wearing types coming up.
db.mx
Member
Yeah, I hate when people descend it too.
bvader
Long Live The Gorn!
Man we like griping about S that hasn't happened yet.
Seems to me that the Stage Coaches have turn out to be good / fun / decent trails... showing some wear and tear...but pretty good.
And the new Cammarillo is ok...
So me? ... gonna wait and see.
People have been going up lizards for ages...
All trails in El Moro LCWP and Aliso are two way, not just by definition but for real, hell I was fllllyyyyying down Ol' Emerald a week ago just to come upon some youngins hiking up it, I see people Hiking up T&A, Heck many of use Climb Stair Steps, just need to stay aware and be in control.
BTW I allegedly really like those flowy and the tight section on Lizards...lots of it was fun .. but the top was absolutely being destroyed over the last couple years... allegedly
Seems to me that the Stage Coaches have turn out to be good / fun / decent trails... showing some wear and tear...but pretty good.
And the new Cammarillo is ok...
So me? ... gonna wait and see.
People have been going up lizards for ages...
All trails in El Moro LCWP and Aliso are two way, not just by definition but for real, hell I was fllllyyyyying down Ol' Emerald a week ago just to come upon some youngins hiking up it, I see people Hiking up T&A, Heck many of use Climb Stair Steps, just need to stay aware and be in control.
BTW I allegedly really like those flowy and the tight section on Lizards...lots of it was fun .. but the top was absolutely being destroyed over the last couple years... allegedly
herzalot
Well-Known Member
If either of you had Chris Kings or I9s he wouldn't have heard the bees either...
rjcsocal
Member
I'm not sure who's griping - speculating more than anything (at least on my part). It's one of my favorite trails -- allegedly -- and am excited about not being a poacher anymore. I think most of us get excited about trail work and can be concerned with what may happen when a favorite trail is overhauled. Look at the thread on the Luge. This is no Luge, but it's a legit trail. It's tough to find a fun bit of trail if you live over here and don't want to drive to a trailhead for a ride, and this one is a highlight. I can't wait to see what they do with the first couple hundred yards of it. There's an opportunity to put some flow into it without oversanitizing it.
jeepr84
Member
well said.....I think that's something we can all agree on.
dstepper
(R.I.P.) Over the hill
The trail will be wider and easier when first opened. The brush will grow back and the weather will make the trail more tech. Things have changed in Laguna, they are more aggressive in ticketing and watch what is going on much closer. Maybe changes are here to stay, in the past they get tough then then move on to other pressing issues. The look the other way policy worked when traffic was low, but when larger groups of riders continually ride closed trails they will react.
Dean
Dean
rjcsocal
Member
Went for a trail run at lunch. Two trucks parked at Bommer trail head. I may have gone down a couple hundred yards and checked it out (I had planned on doing the whole trail, but decided just to take a peek since people were working on it). I may have a couple pics of of badly needed improvements. Can't wait to see what the rest of the trail looks like.
Continued with my run and came back as a handful of people were milling about. Stopped and talked to Alan Kaufmann from the Laguna Canyon Foundation. He said they finished brushing it today. The contractor work is done (same guy that did work at Oaks) and they're just needing to work on the rest of the tread work. He said the contractor almost cried when he saw the damage done by people riding it while it was wet. There's been plenty of people riding it as it is -- 18 on Strava this week alone.
He said due to the bureaucratic process of things, it should be open in 6-8 weeks.
Continued with my run and came back as a handful of people were milling about. Stopped and talked to Alan Kaufmann from the Laguna Canyon Foundation. He said they finished brushing it today. The contractor work is done (same guy that did work at Oaks) and they're just needing to work on the rest of the tread work. He said the contractor almost cried when he saw the damage done by people riding it while it was wet. There's been plenty of people riding it as it is -- 18 on Strava this week alone.
He said due to the bureaucratic process of things, it should be open in 6-8 weeks.
BikeThePlanet
Active Member
Dumb asses. No respect. When are getting a new official trail and dummies can't wait a month or two?
Update:
Worked with the Laguna Canyon Foundation to finish the repair work on Lizards, add some plants at the margins, seed some areas, and help give nature a head start to define the trail edges with growth (if anyone's been through) now that 99.9% of the heavy lifting on the upper section before the canopy is completed. Some PO management, adding brush in areas to keep the trail footprint about the width of the bars and the brush wide enough so it doesn't hook you, but doesn't allow you to make the trail wider.
The current opening is hopefully late March/early April. The hangup is the number of oversight agencies this new trail has to go through, each with their mandatory 14-30 days of review. This is so that when the inevitable happens (user error), a trail user can't sue OC Parks or any of the other government agencies because the level of oversight and review eliminates the idea of negligence, either willful or accidental. Sucks in the short term, but means that there's virtually no way that the trail would be closed once opened.
Oh, and if it rains again, or you're in LCWP and see people poaching it, kindly tell them that the trail will likely remain closed as long as people continue to damage it and undo the work done to it before its open. Nothing better than having 20+ strava segments posted to a closed trail 24 hours after a rain, when the rest of the park is closed as well.
After its open, have at it. Even while working on it today, people were on it (this is a closed trail?) despite the presence of trucks at both ends of the trails, closed signs, rangers on site, etc.
Sidebar, these guys seem to do quite a bit of trail work and are also responsible for some trail work in Aliso (5 Oaks is on their list since its as wide as a freeway in some areas now.) but get very few volunteers from the MTB community, if any. They seemed genuinely surprised that I was there besides Steve, our SHARE (local IMBA Chapter) president.
Head on over to SHAREs website (http://sharemtb.com) and Laguna Canyon Foundation (http://www.lagunacanyon.org/volunteer/trail-maintenance/) for more info. All it takes is a couple of hours once a month.
Worked with the Laguna Canyon Foundation to finish the repair work on Lizards, add some plants at the margins, seed some areas, and help give nature a head start to define the trail edges with growth (if anyone's been through) now that 99.9% of the heavy lifting on the upper section before the canopy is completed. Some PO management, adding brush in areas to keep the trail footprint about the width of the bars and the brush wide enough so it doesn't hook you, but doesn't allow you to make the trail wider.
The current opening is hopefully late March/early April. The hangup is the number of oversight agencies this new trail has to go through, each with their mandatory 14-30 days of review. This is so that when the inevitable happens (user error), a trail user can't sue OC Parks or any of the other government agencies because the level of oversight and review eliminates the idea of negligence, either willful or accidental. Sucks in the short term, but means that there's virtually no way that the trail would be closed once opened.
Oh, and if it rains again, or you're in LCWP and see people poaching it, kindly tell them that the trail will likely remain closed as long as people continue to damage it and undo the work done to it before its open. Nothing better than having 20+ strava segments posted to a closed trail 24 hours after a rain, when the rest of the park is closed as well.
After its open, have at it. Even while working on it today, people were on it (this is a closed trail?) despite the presence of trucks at both ends of the trails, closed signs, rangers on site, etc.
Sidebar, these guys seem to do quite a bit of trail work and are also responsible for some trail work in Aliso (5 Oaks is on their list since its as wide as a freeway in some areas now.) but get very few volunteers from the MTB community, if any. They seemed genuinely surprised that I was there besides Steve, our SHARE (local IMBA Chapter) president.
Head on over to SHAREs website (http://sharemtb.com) and Laguna Canyon Foundation (http://www.lagunacanyon.org/volunteer/trail-maintenance/) for more info. All it takes is a couple of hours once a month.
herzalot
Well-Known Member
Thanks button...
I will join the LCF.
I will join the LCF.