Scandium vs Titanium

I am thinking about building a somewhat custom hard tail to complement my all mountain bike. I was looking at a seven verve and moots rigor mootis maybe even the litespeed obed, but then I found the Kona Kula frame and it is significantly less in price. It seems like you can get the frame for about 500.00 vs the seven and moots and over 2k and the litespeed at about 1800. I like the idea of the cost savings, but I don't know much about the scandium frame, ride quality, strength etc. It says the weight of the 17" frame is just 2.9lbs, and so I'm kinda wondering if the frame is just as thin as a coke can - Any thoughts?? :?:

 

Scandium is next to Titanium on the periodic table so it should share some of it's properties. Scandium bikes are actually a scandium-aluminum alloy. Several manufacturers are making Scandium bikes, and there is a notable weight savings over aluminum. I don't know much of the long term, but would imagine you'd get some of the benefits of both (al and sc) in the alloy.

I know Bionicon is also making a scandium hard tail that weighs around 21 pounds, and their Golden Willow Scandium (6" front 4.7" rear) comes in at 26.3 pounds... I'm not sure the actual frame weights, but have seen both bikes raced pretty hard without problem.

Others may know more about the properties of the Scandium alloy, but I have to guess since several manufacturers are turning to it, they must all be seeing the benefits of the material.

 

No frame is a real SC

They all mixed with Aluminum.
The SC it self tend to get rust faster than steel.
If you're looking for a long term frame, look no other than TI.
Another good TI option is Titus.
:drunk:

 

Kona Kula

I have a Kona Kula Supreme (Sc) and a custom Ti $$$$ singlespeed.

The Ti is very comfortable for the long cruising rides and is a beautiful "work of art".

The Kula is more racey quick and very stiff without being harsh. I don't feel the flex as I do on the Ti frame, but even on the real rough stuff, It still feels great. More stable/predictable than the Ti on the technical stuff.

I paid retail $750 for my '06 frame and I think that was a bargain. With XT/Thompson level stuff, beefy wheels/Tires, it weighs in at 24lbs.

Whatever you get, please post the pics!

 

Scandium is a rare metal, hard to extract and get pure, because it readily oxidizes so easily. It is alloyed in with aluminum in slight, practically trace amounts, and affects the crystalline formation structure within the aluminum alloy. Some properties it adds are making the material harder to drill or cut into, increase in compression properties, and much more strength at welds. The strength it adds can sometimes allow thinner, lighter walled aluminum to do the job compared to straight 6000 series aluminums.

It is a very tough material to mine and extract out of the ground, consequently the price per pound is astronomical. Fortunately, it takes very little of it to beef up aluminums strength.

 

I ride a Scandium Niner Air 9 hardtail. I love it. Its very comfy even on 30+ mile rides through rocky areas. I've never ridden a Ti frame, so I can't comment on those.

As for the materials engineering of it all, alloys are much more than the sum of their ingredients, but depend heavily on processing conditions and handling. That being said, the trace amounts of scandium make enough difference for many applications to be embracing it as a worthwhile technology.

I say go for a scandium-aluminum alloy frame until you want to drop the coin on a semi custom Ti frame. You don't seem to jazzed about the ~$2K for the Ti, so save that for another day.

 

thanks to all for your time and feedback, i believe i am going to go with the scandium full custom bike, so look for pictures to come soon on this posting. now it's off to The Path -

 

Well all things boil down to how much you are willing to spend.

I would not go with custom scandium as most scandium frames don't last very long. Most scandium frame has paper thin tubing and are very easy to dent. I use to have a voodoo scandium frame and definitely liked the ride quality but was a bit worried about durability.

Ti on the other hand especially when you are talking about custom can be made to anyway you like it. I have a seven verv and it is comfy, stiff, fast and of course the bling factor.

Any frame can ride great if it's made properly so if it's value you are after go with factory scandium. If it's the bling factor you are after then custom Ti is the must have.

 

So here is the build out with the quote from The Path - Thanks Tani

16" Kona Kula Frame
rear der xt
fork fox f 100 rlc
brakes juicy 5
chain sram
shifters xt
seat wtb rocket v race
tires nevegal 2.1 dtc
grips odi lock on
cranks lx
f der lx
cassette xt 11-32
stem thompson x4
seat post thompson elite
headset king
wheels king iso 14/15 blk on 717
pedals candy
handlebar ea70
skewers xt
seatpost clamp kona stock

estimated weight - 23lbs

out the door price with total build $3255 :-s

What do you guys think?? :?:

Thanks for the feedback

 

You'll love it!

I like the 23lbs. part :beer:

 

Titanium offers a ride that is similar to steel, all things being equal (geometry plays an important role in ride quality)

Titanium is a lot more durable than scandium (scandium alloyed aluminum has a decreased stress fatigue life than 7000 or 6000 series alu but it is still there. Titanium has a much higher tolerance against stress fatigue)

Scandium is lighter than Titanium. (So is aluminum but it takes the scandium alloy to get the material strong enough to make a viable frame and still be lighter than Ti)

Titanium is stronger than Scandium.

Titanium does not corrode, Scandium does.

Basically if you want the lightest bike you can build then Carbon Fiber or Scandium is the way to go.

If you want a really light bike that will probably outlive you, go Titanium.


I have one Ti bike(1998 Merlin Mountain) and I have two scandium bikes (2007 Kona King and 2008 Salsa Dos Niner).

 

I like my scandium wheels

 

If a Lenz was offered in Scandium or Ti it would literally be unstoppable

 

Which half?

 

Unstoppable

the only thing that would stop it is when it breaks in half.

 

your jealousy is ugly

 

Does it show?

I keep waiting to be chosen as one of the select few that can own a Lenz. I guess I do not "rate".

 

It only

takes money. Geesh, one bike breaks in half and you won't let it go. Good thing Turners never break....

 

Turners break

Show me one that demolishes under the rider and then we can talk

Again I ride a Turner because I do not rate.

ps. You mean non racers can own a Lenz:?:

get back on topic please

 

Ok.

Back to the show.