PV: The axe is falling.....

[DDB@OCR]

Just use common sense and follow the guidelines that I've noted, are posted on the gates and on the website in my sigline.

If you need more or up to the minute info, contact Troy through the mtbpv.org website.

Still MTB riders are supposed to yield to all other trail groups, regardless. Hikers and Equestrians are always shocked when I actually acknowledge them and wait for approval to proceed.

Good points and good trail etiquette. :clap:

 

[Rockinthecasbah]

Amen!
That's the silver lining.
Riding in PV may be ridiculous at the moment, but at least the hordes of Starship Troopers are no longer welcome! I'm willing to give up a few trails if it means we don't have to be subjected to the downhill goons that used to infest Del Cerro.

And what are you... Jesus??? Accept there are many types of riders and just because your not into something doesnt mean it is a lesser form of riding that dosent deserve any space.

 

[DDB@OCR]

What is the news on the proposed "fun-zone"? any word on that?

Please PM or email Troy at mtbpv.org, drclark etc....the legislation is/may still be ongoing with this so...

For those in the know- keep sensative ongoing legislation on the down-low unless cleared by Troy etc., please and mucho thanks.

 

[drclark]

From what I heard, the PUMP committee would not endorse the idea of the "bike skills area" without a proposed location. We were pushing for the endorsement of the idea with the location and implementation left up to the best discretion of the conservancy. For now, the issue has been tabled which is probably better than being killed outright.

Troy gave me the OK to post the proposed trails ordinance since it is a public document and going to be discussed and probably voted on at tomorrow's, tues 7/15/2008, city council meeting. See the attached PDF. There is a lot of background info and such but the meat of the ordinance is here:

12.16.130 Reckless Use of Trails Within the Palos Verdes Nature Preserve Prohibited

No person shall, and it shall constitute a public nuisance for, any person, including pedestrians, equestrians and bicyclists, to use any trail within the Palos Verdes Nature Preserve ("the Preserve") in a reckless manner that is likely to cause injury or harm to others.​

$55.00 for the first offense
$100.00 for the second offense​

$200.00 for the third offense

That is basically it. It is so vaguely worded that just about anything could be considered reckless... heck the mere presence of a mountain biker might likely cause injury or harm to others.......I have no idea how it will be enforced. It will probably be up to officer discretion as I would assume they would have to directly observe such reckless behavior (or direct results of such behavior such as scrapes & bruises on a hiker as a result of a collision).​

Roach, I wish you wouldn't post inflamatory comments to this thread. While many purist XC riders may agree with your sentiments and want to place blame on DH/FR crowd for spoiling things on the hill, it does us no good as a group to splinter and start infighting. Like it or not, hikers and equestrians see anyone traveling on two wheels all the same.​

I firmly believe that DH/FR riders need sanctioned places where they can enjoy their styles of riding and that there is no logical reason why PV cannot find some open space to have a funzone or skills park. It is something that I think we need to continue to work toward in addition to expanding general trail access. The flipside, is they will continue to ride there, building jumps, and cutting trails illegally and eventually get bikers kicked out for good.​

drc​

 

[DDB@OCR]

Thanks, D...

 

[bikeadict]

Again as I said earlier that ordinance is going nowhere.

12.16.130 Reckless Use of Trails Within the Palos Verdes Nature Preserve Prohibited

No person shall, and it shall constitute a public nuisance for, any person, including pedestrians, equestrians and bicyclists, to use any trail within the Palos Verdes Nature Preserve ("the Preserve") in a reckless manner that is likely to cause injury or harm to others.

$55.00 for the first offense
$100.00 for the second offense​

$200.00 for the third offense

By that definition if hikers are completely covering the trail, you come upon them with some speed, are forced to go off the trail to miss them and hit a tree they would be at fault?

By that wording above, this situation is perfecty possible. The hikers being pedestrians are using the trail in a mannor that caused injury to others.

Mind you cyclists have to yield to everyone but I believe it should be written down somewhere that every user has responsibilities to share the trail.

You can't legislate everything.

Every time when I'm riding and I see a hiker I slow down to a reasonable speed and go by them when the trail is wide enough.

So, it would be said that I am yielding to the pedestrian. However, If that pedestrian was one of those crazy people from the walking website and did not move over to the side of the trail so I could pass then they are acting recklessly?

Very frustrating. Oh well I'm tired its early, I don't know if this makes any sense. Hopefully they don't start doing this B.S. to any of the trails I ride on.

 

[drclark]

If you are riding in a manner such that you cannot stop for another person or obstacle on a trail, you will probably be considered the reckless party. If you read the background portion of the attachment, this ordinance is intended to replace speed limits on trails since it was found that they are typically unenforcable in a trail setting.

I think you will be hard pressed to come up with a scenario to describe reckless hiking. About the only thing I could think of is if a hiker was intentionally hiding behind a bush or tree and jumping out at the last minute in an attempt to cause a crash or collision. Even then you would need plenty of evidence like video to back you up since it would be easy to argue that the rider should be going slow enough to stop.

Bottom line, excessive speed IS likely to injure other people. You cannot ride faster than you can stop.

If we ever want expanded trail access to the rest of del-cerro area, there cannot be any safety incidents between bikes and any other users.

drc

 

[roach]

inflamatory remarks

The reckless riding ordinance is the cumulation of every bike hater's dream. It's an overriding attempt to label all riders as environmental terrorists. If the city council accepts this hateful ordinance, then that will effectively ban bikes from PV all together. PV has become the dumbest place to ride in So Cal (eventhough most of the freeriders are gone).

BTW, the real blame for this situation on the hill is the City of RPV. Their attempts to manage this area have resulted in crazy tensions for all visitors. Just look at this thread, we've got mountain bikers playing trail nazi against other mountain bikers.

What's been accomplished by the thousands of dollars used to purchase this area? A bunch of signs? Outrageous!

I predict by early 2010, bikes will be categorically banned from riding on any dirt surface in the City of RPV.

 

[DDB@OCR]

Regardless of where you ride, if you ride faster 'than is safe for the conditions' you are at fault.

Use common sense when riding public trails.
TREAD lightly. (look it up)

*

Roach- Trail Nazis? I think not. More like Stewards in a Preserve.

Give it a rest bro.

 

[Stray_Bullit]

Amen!
That's the silver lining.
Riding in PV may be ridiculous at the moment, but at least the hordes of Starship Troopers are no longer welcome! I'm willing to give up a few trails if it means we don't have to be subjected to the downhill goons that used to infest Del Cerro.

You've GOT to be kidding. What a completely idiotic statement. I guess this is just a case of "my kung fu better than your kung fu!"

 

[Drop D]

Is night right allowed in pv? :-k

 

[Justin]

Amen!
That's the silver lining.

I've never poached a trail, I don't own a bike with more than 4.5 inches travel, and don't have 1/2 the skills to freeride even if I did.

You still make me want to say things that could get me banned.

Cheers to backspace.

 

[roach]

more rules

Is night right allowed in pv? :-k

According to the new brochures the PVPLC has out there, no one is allowed in the reserve "one hour after sunset or one hour before sunrise".

Don't go out there at night lest one of the "stewards" sees your light from a distance, you may be photographed and possibly educated on how to ride.

 

[allroy71]

I finally got a chance to go to PV since the new trail designations have been posted.

Still enjoyed it, but noticed some sign vandalism on Ishibashi. At the bottom and on the map it is multipurpose use. But up on top, some joker put a line through the horse and bike symbol with a black marker. Hmmm.

Also, I noticed the jump area is still present, but no signage as a trail or no trail. I have a feeling some other areas don't have signs, either. So the best thing is probably to keep out of unsigned areas. Make us look like responsible trail users.

 

[ssisyphus]

Sign Vandalism

It is obvious that vandalism to signs and posts with ropes is being carried out by the lowest class of human kind on a bicycle, hoof, or foot.

This class of individual will not engage in proactive work to promote multi-use trail access and delights in crapping on the efforts of useful people.

If anybody happens to witness any act vandalism please let the low functioning culprit know that they are unwelcome since they obviously have a juvenile delinquents way of dealing with things and they are really pissing off the adults.

Sniveling sign/trail vandals need a serious spanking since their efforts will be very effective in restricting any further access.

Have a nice day and ride responsibly

 

[uzziboy]

But up on top, some joker put a line through the horse and bike symbol with a black marker. Hmmm.

HEY Ssisyphus,

If Im reading this right, you were pretty quick to jump to the conclusion a biker did this act. I understand this is a very heated topic. But I get the general impression a hiker was to blame. And in reading your post u kind of sound like a hiker. Hmmmm....coincedence?

 

[Drop D]

According to the new brochures the PVPLC has out there, no one is allowed in the reserve "one hour after sunset or one hour before sunrise".

Don't go out there at night lest one of the "stewards" sees your light from a distance, you may be photographed and possibly educated on how to ride.

#-oI miss riding PV at night! its the only closest trail in Long Beach that I can ride after work! I will have to settle riding the LA river parallel to 710 ](*,)rotest:

 

[ssisyphus]

Vandalism

Uzzi,

I have been riding in PV for over 20 years and have spent many hours working on trails, attending PUMP meetings, writing letters on behalf of the mountain bike community in order to keep trails open. Others, especially Troy in the PV CORBA have contributed huge amounts of time.

The reason I picked on bikers is not the example you chose but examples I have personally seen of no biking signs broken off, posts and ropes pulled out which closed off a popular drop-off trail, no biking stickers peeled off signs. Hmmmmm?

Did the hikers do this? I think not.

Sooo ... maybe instead of vandalism an upset mountain biker can join us on the next CORBA work day to make a real contribution to keeping trails open to mountain bikers.

 

[DDB@OCR]

FYI: I can personally vouch for 'ssisyphus'.

*

The Preserve is closed at night.

Ride only MARKED trails that are approved for your activity at hand.

Use common sense.
Slow to a crawl around hikers.
Stop around Equines and pass only when told to.
Don't poach. Please.

The rules are few and obvious. A little common sense goes a long ways.

Ride safe and enjoy the fruits of others labor.

:beer:

I'll be up there this afternoon for a lil XC cruise...p/m if interested. You comin' Roach?

 

[Sharky]

I attended several of the PUMP meetings . Troy, Flat Broke, ssisyphus and DRClark (Doug) and a few others were extremely instrumental at these meetings and behind the scenes in fighting for mountainbikers access to these trails and deserve much respect. I realize assumptions are made but I have to speak up and give credit for the hard work , time and money these 4 put in for us bikers. Many thanks to these guys it's well deserved you have no idea all they've done for us. It's easy to misunderstand why comments are made so it's all good but there's always more to the story that you may not be aware of.

Oh yea and thanks Kevin (DDB@OCR) for keeping me entertained during those exasperating meetings !!:wave: