PQ/Tunnels Public planning meeting. September 18th at 6 PM
- Thread starter TCB
- Start date
OldDogDan
Member
DMM = Calavera
Good post evdog, and you just perfectly described Calavera, and the same fate awaits it. What we learn from this may help us head that in a better direction. And farther ahead, get good input into the future San Luis Rey River Park trails.
Good post evdog, and you just perfectly described Calavera, and the same fate awaits it. What we learn from this may help us head that in a better direction. And farther ahead, get good input into the future San Luis Rey River Park trails.
Thanks...
A sincere thanks to all of the riders who attended the meeting and are working dilligently to save what is left of LPQ.
I haven't ridden there since the SDMBA trail day, but I think my next ride will involve going around and around the Tunnels loop until I get dizzy or tired. As much as I hate to say it, we should ride it as much as we can and not be surprised if the fences are fixed and new signs posted in the very near future.
Oh, and if I get arrested, they better have a big trunk... cuz my bike is going in it.:bang:
A sincere thanks to all of the riders who attended the meeting and are working dilligently to save what is left of LPQ.
I haven't ridden there since the SDMBA trail day, but I think my next ride will involve going around and around the Tunnels loop until I get dizzy or tired. As much as I hate to say it, we should ride it as much as we can and not be surprised if the fences are fixed and new signs posted in the very near future.
Oh, and if I get arrested, they better have a big trunk... cuz my bike is going in it.:bang:
PacMan
New Member
I have. It's far from that simple. In cases when the land is private property, a land owner cannot have you arrested simply for trespassing. It's way more involved than that. The things needed to make Trespassing an arrestable offense are numerous.
True, I should've been more clear. I was talking about misdemeanor trespass. There are different classes of misdemeanors and felonies. DUI and Trespassing are different classes.
I wasn't trying to steer this thread in this direction, I was just mentioning it.
I agree with SDYeti on several counts.
I too thought it a successful meeting, if for nothing else than Erik Basil. If not for Erik (and a slew of other fine folks I erred by not including in this original post- see TCB's post below) I believe we would have zero trails. Zero. Erik, et al's proposal maintained nearly the entire tunnel loop as bike and hike, and integrated a peripheral loop outside of the tunnel trails as multi-use trails. A clear and concise presentation of a beautifully integrated plan. The trail manager (forgot his name) was knowledgeable and also very positive in this approach. Sounded like he knew how to make this plan work for the long term. Several Rangers were also vital in GPS mapping out of the trails. If not for the coordinated integration of all these components, the trails would be lost. Thank a ranger next time you see one. And buy Erik a beer. :beer:
There was more than an overtone on the mountain bikers being the blame on several levels- we heard speakers discuss disrespect of the trails, scaring horses, and even joggers not wanting to come out on weekends due to fear of getting run over. I came away with the impression of frustration and a general misappropriation of blame.
The environment, as it was made very clear by speakers representing mountain bikers, is of primary concern to all of us. Preservation of the trails can be best carried out by local mountain bike associations and volunteers than by an understaffed park service alone. The area pointed out by Justin (?; Fish & Game) being in serious disrepair is the trail between the eucalyptus trees and tunnel 2 (starting from the east). This is a very wide trail (fire road) and certainly not placed in that position entirely by MTBs, certainly not all the garbage. As SDYeti mentioned, those at the meeting, as with all I've met at Tunnels, are serious, mature, respectful trail riders that yield to horses, hikers, joggers, and utilize proper technique (in my case, vainly attempt to) so as not to leave an imprint on the trail. I've never seen anyone disrespectful to the horse riders, but then I only ride the lower trails to get to tunnels.
As for a misappropriation of blame towards MTBers, conspicuously absent from any of the talks were representatives of Pardee, and the council members of San Diego who appropriated away so much of the land to developers that we are fighting amongst ourselves for the scraps we, and the fragile preserve environment, have left. Their presence, or lack thereof, did not, and should not, go unnoticed.
If we are to enjoy these areas for years to come, and share this appreciation with our children, we have to stop pointing fingers at one another and recognize the enemy isn't the guy on the horse, or the guy on the bike: it's developer expansion.
Looks like we might have tunnels with us a little bit longer. Kudos again to Erik, Rob, the SD trails manager, SDMBA, the rangers and the great showing by the MTB community.
I too thought it a successful meeting, if for nothing else than Erik Basil. If not for Erik (and a slew of other fine folks I erred by not including in this original post- see TCB's post below) I believe we would have zero trails. Zero. Erik, et al's proposal maintained nearly the entire tunnel loop as bike and hike, and integrated a peripheral loop outside of the tunnel trails as multi-use trails. A clear and concise presentation of a beautifully integrated plan. The trail manager (forgot his name) was knowledgeable and also very positive in this approach. Sounded like he knew how to make this plan work for the long term. Several Rangers were also vital in GPS mapping out of the trails. If not for the coordinated integration of all these components, the trails would be lost. Thank a ranger next time you see one. And buy Erik a beer. :beer:
There was more than an overtone on the mountain bikers being the blame on several levels- we heard speakers discuss disrespect of the trails, scaring horses, and even joggers not wanting to come out on weekends due to fear of getting run over. I came away with the impression of frustration and a general misappropriation of blame.
The environment, as it was made very clear by speakers representing mountain bikers, is of primary concern to all of us. Preservation of the trails can be best carried out by local mountain bike associations and volunteers than by an understaffed park service alone. The area pointed out by Justin (?; Fish & Game) being in serious disrepair is the trail between the eucalyptus trees and tunnel 2 (starting from the east). This is a very wide trail (fire road) and certainly not placed in that position entirely by MTBs, certainly not all the garbage. As SDYeti mentioned, those at the meeting, as with all I've met at Tunnels, are serious, mature, respectful trail riders that yield to horses, hikers, joggers, and utilize proper technique (in my case, vainly attempt to) so as not to leave an imprint on the trail. I've never seen anyone disrespectful to the horse riders, but then I only ride the lower trails to get to tunnels.
As for a misappropriation of blame towards MTBers, conspicuously absent from any of the talks were representatives of Pardee, and the council members of San Diego who appropriated away so much of the land to developers that we are fighting amongst ourselves for the scraps we, and the fragile preserve environment, have left. Their presence, or lack thereof, did not, and should not, go unnoticed.
If we are to enjoy these areas for years to come, and share this appreciation with our children, we have to stop pointing fingers at one another and recognize the enemy isn't the guy on the horse, or the guy on the bike: it's developer expansion.
Looks like we might have tunnels with us a little bit longer. Kudos again to Erik, Rob, the SD trails manager, SDMBA, the rangers and the great showing by the MTB community.
PacMan
New Member
jSatch--very well said!!
However, with all the money involved, I doubt Developers will ever be held accountable for their actions.
However, with all the money involved, I doubt Developers will ever be held accountable for their actions.
The proposal was a combed effort from SDMBA, Erik and Rob, so you might want to also buy a beer for Rob and all the SDMBA members that put in countless hours of volunteer time to put the proposal together.
Maybe we could lure them into the vernal pool area, and have Jason slap them with a misdemeanor.
\\
/I guess the question that comes to mind for me is, will F&G be willing to use Deadly Force if a mtb rider refuses to comply? Will they be willing (and equipped), for example, to shoot a bicyclist in the back for refusing to comply with an arrest order on a misdemeanor offense?
Whaddya think?
Whaddya think?
Kudos also to Rich Julien, the secret genius of Flightline (RIP) and of La Costa.
His letter to the Board verged at times on the poetic. It almost moved me to tears.
Rich is an invaluable asset to the San Diego Trails community.
His letter to the Board verged at times on the poetic. It almost moved me to tears.
Rich is an invaluable asset to the San Diego Trails community.
That might depend on whether he's a member of the San Diego Chargers, or not. (dark joke, sorry)
Sounds to me like your itching to find out Ray. Don' think so for a misdemeanor though.
Stun gun, maybe. Could be fun to watch.
Let me know when you're going.
OldDogDan
Member
Agreed completely. His energy is amazing, and I meant it earlier when I said his message was inspirational. It was definitely poetic. In that respect, I had thought about speaking about our children's future & nature, but there was no further need to after Rich's intro, and the speech by Rob where he held up local author Richard Louv's book, "Last Child in Nature". And Minette was clearly holding some real passion in check for the sake of professionalism.
Again, thanks to all these folks, the fire guy, and all who spoke or showed up.
The offense is in the F&G code. It wasn't "trespassing" per se, but I'm sure it is just another version of it. I don't recall what it was (he told us), but it's basically a federally protected area. The silly thing is that it sounds like we could hop the fence and WALK through it all we want. The law forbids modes of transportation other than walking. #-o Back to regular broadcasting....
PacMan
New Member
That makes more sense. Trespassing on govt protected land is a whole different story. Though I still say the odds of SDPD actually arresting you are slim.
I thought it was interesting that he didn't want to get into whether foot traffic was limited to human foot traffic.:?:
I'm still a little concerned, but not because I'm obsessing about getting arrested or stun gunned. Not just yet.
Does anyone remember the initial trails maps, the one that looked like a plate of pasta, and then the forbidden trails changed to red? Everyone's heart sank like they heard their favorite Aunt Mildred just passed away.
How did that equate with Erik, et al's map that everyone was so stoked about?
I don't remember the tunnels trails being open in the initial map. Didn't get my bearings on it though, and forgot about it after seeing the map Erik presented.
Two questions- 1) Which if either is final, or are these just considerations for the committee at the moment?
2) Is there a web site were we can view and compare these maps?
If Erik, et al's map is just under consideration, perhaps we should start a petition to promote that version for an accepted trail plan.
Sorry if I'm missing something here.
Thank you for your time.
Does anyone remember the initial trails maps, the one that looked like a plate of pasta, and then the forbidden trails changed to red? Everyone's heart sank like they heard their favorite Aunt Mildred just passed away.
How did that equate with Erik, et al's map that everyone was so stoked about?
I don't remember the tunnels trails being open in the initial map. Didn't get my bearings on it though, and forgot about it after seeing the map Erik presented.
Two questions- 1) Which if either is final, or are these just considerations for the committee at the moment?
2) Is there a web site were we can view and compare these maps?
If Erik, et al's map is just under consideration, perhaps we should start a petition to promote that version for an accepted trail plan.
Sorry if I'm missing something here.
Thank you for your time.
Rich, Manjeet and Minette killed it. Our land managers simply do not get to hear from the trails community in the manner these speakers presented so well. As you could tell from some "official hostility" during presentations, most of our land managers still think mountainbikers are uneducated thugs. Eloquent, professional, sincere and meaningful presentations like those from Rich, Manjeet and Minette are essential.
Rob and Mike knocked it out of the park. Rob needed to set a context, to establish our basis and to illustrate the differences between the City's original proposal and the reality of what's out there. The land managers listened and carefully so.
Mike had the difficult task of demonstrating how the environmentalist community (ie you) had reviewed data with sensitive lands, and that we are proposing a massive trail closure. He needed to lock-set our credibility as enviros, in the face of those with negative stereotypes, and he completely revamped his presentation with only hours of notice. I stood behind and watched the land managers. Say what you want about all his "eat healthy, bla bla bla" but Mike freakin' rules. I went out and tried wheatgrass juice this morning because of that guy.
I had it easy, frankly. All I had to do was talk about trails and I've been doing that in this preserve and area meetings since I had hair, and dark hair at that. The trails plan I got to describe was the product of many people's work: all those described here, plus consultants from every user group, interactions with land managers and much more.
Man, I wish last night was enough, that the land managers and trail community had reached consensus. I think we have much more to do on this topic.
