Irresponsible Equestrian

The reason this post was started was because of the irresponsible behavior of this individual and her blatent disrespect for the habitat. For that she needs to be called out. For the record, I have called out mountain bikers for the same abuse of the trails. I really don't understand why people keep talking about what a great rider she is when her ability to ride a horse has nothing to do with her irresponsible behavior. Does that mean that if you prove you are a skilled mountain biker you can cut switchbacks and ride off trail. You talk about all the times she has yielded to mountain bikers. I have encountered her twice on Coachwhip and the way she yielded was to cut through the habitat to the next lower trail.
And just to set the record straight, I seriously doubt that she has put in more time on the local trails than I have.
Improved communication and education are all great ways to improve relationships on the trail, but I will continue to actively protect the trails and the habitat at every opportunity and if that means calling out this person and exposing her irresponsible behavior then so be it.

One more thing, unlike you, I have no respect for people who have no respect for the beautiful trail system at SORP.

 

Chopper hit it pretty spot on, but just to note - if you do a little research on this site, you'll see that individual riders are called out all the time. Just last week there was thread regarding someone using poor etiquette passing hikers on Chutes, and they were roundly called out by the community. One of many examples; there have been lively debates regarding trail usage on this site. Please do your homework before making blanket statements.

There is absolutely no reason not to call out an individual. Period.

edit - regarding your so-called 'lurkers' out here: If you do some background reading, you'll see that the vast majority of equestrian interactions that are referenced in this thread, and on this site as a whole, are positive. That was the point of this thread, identifying a particular individual that was by many accounts being openly hostile. In other words, out of the norm of the usual courteous interactions between riders and equestrians.

 

^^^^^^^^ Edited as I had written something similiar to jasonmason on "bad apple" mountain bikers being called out around here.

 

It didn't hurt to repeat it. It's true and needs to be acknowleged.

 

Let's call it like it is

"blatent disrespect for the habitat" first happened when the habitat was devastated with machinery and laborers out there hacking out the 'new', albeit better for bikers, trail system. How do I know this? Because I have been out there for years, and for 30 of the years when it was a natural park, where we biked, rode and hiked on the trails without ripping up and out flora and fauna that had been there for literally decades. I have photos of the utter devastation that took place to the plant life and habitat as the new trail system went in. A travesty to say the least and we ALL know it. Don't you dare preach about the hoofprints of an random equine, most likely trying to avoid YOU, going off trail. AND in response to the rogue bikers being called out - they are called out WITHIN this community, NEVER to the park rangers by a fellow biker.
Need I go on? We all know, wink wink, that the rangers turn a blind eye to the over the 10mph limit that happens every time we bike, come on, even Sheri acknowledged it....we all know that a fellow biker funded the initial planning and following carnage to 'enhance' the trails that we all play on now....another wink wink? So come on, MAN UP, call it like it is.
In all of these years I have had almost nothing but pleasant encounters with my fellow users. HOWEVER the percentage of those making it literally dangerous is increasing. We all know that with this increased biker population within a park that has recently been made more 'biker friendly', AND a not so new element of those inconsiderate BIKERS (yelling and going off trail to avoid you isn't going to kill you now, is it?) a SERIOUS accident is inevitable. So how do we reach those rogue bikers giving everyone a bad name BEFORE that happens? That should be the question of the hour....drop the other BS and figure out how to reach that rogue element soon before they ruin it for all of us. POLICE OUR OWN - an annoying equestrian shouldn't scare you so much..................

 

OH and by the way Chopper, WAY more hours than you - get real - oh, and while we are on the subject of getting real...what was your part in the initial encounter with the woman (in which her visor flew off)?? If you can't even truthfully compare your hours with a woman who has been riding out there for more that 45 years what else would you like to share with us...
okay, enough, I'm going down your alley now of finger pointing - let's just concentrate on fixing the REAL problem...............I'm in

 

Are you saying that riding a horse cannot be enjoyable while staying on the designated trail?
And by the way, this is not Montana and SORP is not out in the wilderness any longer. It is surrounded by urban sprawl. Because of that everyone has to go by the same rules including Suzy. If that is the "BS" you are telling me to drop, you can forget about that because I am not going to drop it. You can count on that. I am armed with a camera a long list of email addresses.

What special priviliges do you get for using open spaces for you own enjoyment. I have dedicated over 5000 hours of volunteer time to maintaining trails in OC. That's Five Thousand in case you thought it was a typo. Those hours are documented in case you think I'm exagerating. With that in mind I would never assume that I should have some special priviliges. I follow the rules just like I preach them.

I don't know anything about a visor. What the heck are you talking about?

 

rideandhikertrailgirl-

Ok, i'll take the 'man up' bait. Want to call it like it is? Rogue bikers are going to be the same as rogue equestrians, rogue hikers, rogue trail runners, rogue geocachers, or any other so-called 'rogue' park user. This is one website, and while it's got a pretty large subscribership, there are LOT of mountain bikers that are not involved in this discussion. Those that are ARE called out in the community, as it should be. Why would mountain bikers call out a rogue equestrian to the bike community only, and not rangers as well? From what has been discussed, rangers already knew about this individual.

The park trail system was redesigned for the balance of usership. Are there more riders now than in the past? Yes. As such, trails were designed for long term sustainability based on that paradigm. Did they look pretty during construction, or right after? No. I don't think anyone here will argue that point with you. But over time they have grown back in, smoothed out, and become much more of the landscape so to speak. Did an individual step up to pay for part of the reconstruction? It seems so - and a big kudos to them. The trail still had to be approved by it's regulatory body, so to insinuate that this generosity somehow turned the park into a bike-only stronghold is disingenuous.

Look, the whole point of this isn't argumentation. We both use the park. We need to coexist; it will make everyone's lives easier if we do, and can keep up a positive conversation. The bike community knows (and has flatly acknowledged) that inconsiderate riders make that conversation more difficult; the community self-policing that does go on tries to minimize that. The same works for ALL trail users.

 

I don't think rideandhikertrailgirl's perspective is wrong, and I'm glad that she's here representing solely from the equestrian side (Sherry equally represents both sides, I think, which is also greatly welcomed).

There are user issues, but let's be realistic of all of our expectations in regards to etiquette. Both 'sides' are involved in an outdoor sport in a relatively small urban environment. This is not truly open wild land.

So the realisitc part...We can't educate all bike riders or all equestrians about other users. We have to expect that we (bikers and horse riders) will occasionally have undesireable confrontations. But yet we all need to be tolerant of each other if we all want to survive. This is the way of life.

 

I wouldn't be half surprised if you guys were arguing back and forth with Sheri herself right about now...

 

Whoa whoa whoa, stop the clock!! Don't you people understand she can do whatever she pleases on account of she has been riding out there for 45 years. It's her trails. She was there FIRST!


shitty

 

Yeah, I've only been poaching/trespassing out there for about 25 years.... I'm so glad they made it a park so we can all enjoy it now ;\

 

Except she's coming off as mtb bikers are to blame for everything, from destruction of trails to inproper trail etiquette, to bribing the park officials, to making the trails dangerous, to its all the mtb community's fault that there are any "rogue" riders. The horse community has done/can do no wrong, was there first and shouldn't have to change their ways.

IMHO.

 

My perspective

I am coming from the very unique perspective of having done all three sports within SORP boundaries for years before most of you had training wheels. I am coming from the perspective of losing a once beautiful natural park to the recent 'enhancement' of making it better suited for the many (which we all know really means designed with the mountain biker in mind). The decimation that took place to plant and animal life that will never come back is unconscionable. Sure it looks a little 'softer' now but that does not mitigate the complete destruction of all natural habitat that was in the path of the extensive 'enhanced' trail system. The natural runoff and draining into the naturally established steam system has been destroyed as well. A great price to the natural habitat has been paid for our enjoyment. I should not even readdress the subject of 'habitat respect' when you are refering to a horse's hoofprints occurring every two feet up a hill. I believe this is an extremely rare occurance within the park. The only excuse for it would be to avoid the danger of running into a speed seeking mountain biker. It is dangerous for the equestrian to go off trail due to unseen holes, rocks and rattlesnakes so I doubt 'habitat' destruction from the horse's hoof falls is a real issue;..... HOWEVER absolute destruction occurred during the making of the new trails. Those plants that were decimated will NEVER return, those creatures killed during the literal carnage will never return. What was once there is obliberated. The new trails will never be the natural landscape that they eleminated. And the park been turned into a bikers stronghold - a truth that can not be covered up as it is so obvious. I lamented this all in silence as did many others. I lamented in silence with others, because it is after all now better suited for the less skilled, a greater percentage of the
populous and as previously noted, for mountain bikers. Why are so many now concerned and speaking up? Because an increased true danger to all that share the new trail system is indeed real and can not be disputed; The speed that most bikers require for fullfillment is putting us all in danger. Not the one rogue equestrian, not the spoken rudeness when someone is angered due to a near avoidable accident. The truth is that there have recently been too many near tragedies due to the speed or unwillingness to yield of the mountain bikers out there. There exists the likelihood that a serious accident will soon occur if this continues. It's not about 'sides' or even perspectives. I am definitely not representing solely from an equestrian perspective and there most certainly should not be 'sides'. Sherry is definitely not equally representing both 'sides'....her money comes from selling the bikes to the bikers and read her posts...it really is obvious. She is straddling the fence with a definite lean to one side. Worse, she did irresponsibly call out an individual equestrian by name who has never put a biker's life in danger while also throwing in a comment about the relationship this woman supposedly had with her son. REALLY?? Not constructive.
I am willing to change anything as a former biker, current hiker and equestrian to keep us all safe. What would you like me to change?

 

Your attitude......and your unwillingness to see this from a perspective other than your own. You're asking a group of people to consider a perspective other than their own......but you seem unwilling to do the same.

Also, it sounds like alot of your issues stem from the development of new trails in the park. Seems like you'd be better off complaining to those who approved of the plans at the park level.....rather than those who spend their time enjoying the trails.

 

Wow donkey, guess you skimmed through my posts.. can't say that I blame you. However recap, I am most likely one of the few who has avidly done all three so has a much broader perspective than almost all - The only real danger is the speed by the mountain bikers when combined with the refusal to yield the right of way. Sums it all up in one sentence. Should have spared you all your obvious discomfort and just stated what us the obvious. The loss of natural habitat is done. The danger presented by the behavior of those who just don't care is ongoing.

 

Really, it's a park for all to play in - it's not some wild reserve, and it never will be. If anything we'll see more houses encroaching, just as we've recently seen torward the north side of the park.

I'm not sure why anyone would be upset about a few horse tracks or even bike tracks for that matter anywhere out there. It happened before, and it will happen again. A fire will likely once again kill virtually every living thing in the park, and errosion will continue to take dirt from the top of the hill and run it to the lower laying areas. The land was obliterated before, and it will be obliterated again. If anyone wants to ride (bikes or horses) on truly unmolested land, you had better get out of this metropolis. If you want to ride in such a heavily congested area, you're going to have to accept the risks of confrontations. Expecting that you won't is foolish.

Again, there will always be user differences. As bicyclists have been forced off the roads by automobiles, we must go elsewhere, such as these kinds of parks. Keep in mind that roads are so filled with self-serving drivers on their phones, they cause significantly more injuries and casualties to cyclists in a year than what cyclists do to equestrians in decades.

Again, I will say that rideandhikertrailgirl's perception is unquestionably real - it's her experience whether we like it or not. Although she made her rants clear, I'm not entirely clear of her realistic expectations. However, for her to expect to be free of any confrontations in life, she's going to be sorely frustrated. Just as I would be sorely frustrated if I expected to not have to ever encounter horse s#it on the trail again.

 

That you, Ronnie? :wave:

 

I here by resign from STR. If y'all want to find me I'll be over at http://connect.sierraclub.org/forums/

 

Lemme guess...you are part of the "Crack Frack Export Team"