"Ghetto Tubeless" . . . . really?

Mikie and friends,

I saw this article on pinkbike today, and I immediately thought of this thread.

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Tech-Tuesday-Gorilla-Tape-Tubeless-Conversion.html

 

thats not really a "conversion" as those wtb frequency rims have a ust bead. theyre just saying you can use gorilla tape to seal off the spoke holes instead of the tape made by wtb or stans. Im actually picking up a set of those rims today to replace my aging 823's!

 

I just joined Pink Bike and contacted Richard Cunningham the author of that Tech Tuesday Article. I asked him to read this thread and to post a comment.

However Sir Crashalot is right, the WTB i23 is an UST extruded rim. I don't think it is certified but "approved" by the Mavic patent?

None the less, I sincerely appreciate you referencing that article and I look forward to what Richard has to say...

Thanx!
~Mikie

 

Syntace W35 Wheels

A bit more confusion from that pinkbike article about the Gorilla Tape conversion. The author starts out with "I was faced with a dilemma recently when Syntace sent me their new XC wheelset with super-wide 35-millimeter ID rims.". But all the illustrations show a WTB i23 (a 23mm inside width rim). The measuring tape across the rim showing 1 inch wide raised a flag for me (1 inch just don't equal 35mm!)

So today on Pinkbike, a review of Syntace W35 wheels... I'm assuming they are done up with the gorrilla tape conversion..... but anyway, more info on the widder rim thing , for your reading pleasure!

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Syntace-W35-MX-Wheels-Tested.html

Dave

 

Thanks Dave!
I notice that all the Tech Tuesday articles are by Richard Cunningham. Believe it or not he lives in San Diego. He has really been focused on Wide Rims as of late. I think you have brought two of his articles to the table, and then his recent one above came out today. I did send him a PM on Pink Bike. I'm not sure what qualifies him as a Wheel Expert but he IS doing the research and talking to the manufacturers so he sure knows a bunch more then me. I would be interested to know what his take would be on this thread and how he would summerize it.....

Although it does seem to me we came to some pretty clear conclusions.

Thanks!
~Mikie

 

I bet that after he taped the Syntace rims he decided to do an article. So he grabbed new rims instead of taking the Syntace apart.
.
.

 

Scottay,
I just did a search on Richard Cunningham and it says on Pink Bike he lives either in San Diego or Canyon Country........are, you.....Richard Cunningham?!?!?



Says he has these bikes: SC BlurLTc for AM, Pivot Mach 5.7 and Pivot 429 trailbike.

Do you know this guy?

 

I know I'm late in the game, and this may not be relevant anymore since in the thread's five pages world peace was achieved. But since I run conversions also, I wanted to know what the "experts" had to say. I wrote an email to MBA and here is the response:

Good Morning,

Currently on my Niner One 9 and Giant Anthem X1 29 I run Stan’s No Tubes Rims, Hope Hubs with Specialized 2Bliss tires. Recently on a local MTB Forum(STR), there has been a lengthy discussion on what is Ghetto Tubeless. This all stemmed from a rider’s tire burping and a serious injury. He was running a conversion rather than UST wheels and tires. Many are calling conversions (Stan’s kit, tubeless ready, etc.) “Ghetto Tubeless” and anything less than UST unsafe. My understanding is Ghetto Tubeless is when you run a standard rim and tire with a cut tube to mount thetire bead on and sealant. After the tire is mounted you cut the excess tire rubber off them presto, ghetto tubeless. Can you please shed some light on the issue? Thanks!


You’re description of ghetto tubeless is right on the money. Conversion kits are different. All their components are designed to work together to convert a rim to tubeless and there are a ton of them available (not just Stan’s) that take different routes to the same destination (tubeless wheels).
We are not aware that a properly converted tubeless set of wheels is any more dangerous than regular pneumatic tires with tubes (that can also blow off the rim or flat). Of course, a rider can try to run air pressure too low and that will certainly cause issues or if the wheels are not sealed properly, air leaking from the tire during the ride can lead to burping it on a rock or in a turn.

We have been running converted wheels for years now and we have had a few burps on the trail (and one tire blow off the rim while mounting), but that is not enough of a problem for us to give up the advantages that tubeless brings to the trail.

Not so sure if they are truly experts, but I'm sure they know more than I do since they do a ton of product testing and reviews.

FWIW

 

Yeah probably, I just did a double take when he said 35mm wide and then the measuring tape showed 1 inch.

Back to the tubeless issue, quote from the W35 review article.... "For those who run tubeless, Syntace says that the W-Series rims are tubeless ready with most tape sealing systems. We proved that true when we converted the W35 MX wheels with tape and inflated the tires with a hand pump."

Another "xxx company says they are OK tubeless", but no industry standard to meet.

 

Stalk much???
.
.

 

Hey ZC!
I too emailed MBA. How long ago did you do that? I have yet to hear from them although I guess my direction was asking them to put together a comprehensive article on the subject. I'm glad they responded. I have come to somewhat the same conclusion in general. But for myself, I have pretty much decided to work with UST or UST compliant products.

I do like the idea of tubeless and all the benefits that come with it. But I would like to run a system that does not require sealant, and then use sealant for puncture protection.

I'm pretty confident that my big mistake mostly stemmed from just not enough tire pressure; or, the possiblilty I was losing air on the way down the trail. Either way, it certainly caught me off guard! Wham-O! #-o

@Scottay~ Why . . . . are you nervous?

 

I emailed them on July 13th, and they replied on July 27th. Either way, just glad you are okay!!!

 

Dude seems to be lying down a lot of accusations and flaming a lot of products...do you really know your stuff? Because I don't think your contention that "UST is the ONLY safe tubeless product" has been in any way substantiated. It doesn't even sound like you really understand tubeless products, their differences and applications. Experienced, industry folk have explained why they don't feel they are any more inherently dangerous than anything else in our sport. Apart from your belief/theory that your crash was caused by a tire burp that was caused by running tubeless, do you have anything else to substantiate what is quite a big claim and quite defamatory of all non-UST tubeless products? I mean like something even vaguely scientific, besides your x-rays?
Also, should add, that I 'm glad you're okay(ish) after your crash and although I completely disagree with you POV, I like the discussion you brought up. You seem like a competent, experienced biker who is trying to figure out what happened & I respect you for it.

 

Thanks for the input BBBRAD,
I'm pretty confident I have not flamed anyone product. I have posed no attitudes, and have claimed clearly on several occaisions "NOT" to be an expert, but a "dude" trying to figure out what numerous people on this thread have concluded as being a very confused and misleading technology within the Mountain Bike Industry. Have you read the entire thread?

1) Most have concluded it was a well spent discussion helping to clarify what is and what is not "Ghetto Tubeless".
2) Many have stated that it made them think about what they have been taught and how this thread has help them to make good decisions.
3) If you did read the whole thread then you would have caught what Sir Crashalot stated in essance, completely what my whole reason for posting this thread was about. That post was on the first page only a couple posts down.

Thanks for wishing me well. I hope you got something out of all of this...I know I did.

Sincerely,
~Mikie

 

Hey Mikie, Sorry about your crash. heal up soon. Can you restate which tire you were running? I have re-read the first two pages of posts and I'm not seeing it. sorry no I have not read all 9 pages but I'm working on it.

In my experience, I've found tires with low psi to be the culprit of my burps and tire loss. I have two sets of wheels: Easton Havens (UST) and DT swiss with DT tubless strips. So far I have had one bad front tire burp with a Specialized "2 Bliss" ...and then a complete rear tire seperation resulting in the tire completely coming off the rim with a schwallbe nobby Nic. I believe both of these were on my UST rims and I think these were probably both from running too low of pressure with non-UST tires. I ususally run in the 20-28 psi range for better traction. What I don't like is when I hear that you are not supposed to run low pressures below 30 psi. I thought that was supposed to be the great thing about tubeless, as I have heard on many occations: "you can run low pressures and not get pinch flats"

 

Hey Carl,
Yeah, you pretty much nailed it. I was running a 2.25 Nobby Nic on A DT Conversion. There is NO DOUBT I was running wayyyy too low of tire pressure (30psi). But someone suggested that I may have had a slow leak coming down the singletrack (possible), who knows?.

That setup came OEM on my bike. I'm definetly not blaming anyone or anything but myself. But, it does seem odd that the DT Conversion KIt clearly states to run a UST tire. As well, after talking to Yeti out of concern for them, they had already stopped offering the DT Conversion with the Schwalbe and went back to Maxxis with tubes. I'm not suggesting anything but this:

The Nobby Nic stated nothing less than 25 psi, the DT conversion kit states nothing less than UST. I was running 30 psi in a Tubeless Ready tire on a non UST DT rim. That's why I was confused. It was not until I posted this thread that this came out and I am greatful for all the fantastic input to help me put it to rest...

...I wish I was going to Utah...