diesel owners. read it and weep

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO093fQunLI#t=0m31s

 

200k any engine with new oil reguardles of a filtration system, will have improved emissions, give a tune up with that oil change, youll find even more.......NoX still has nothing to do with changing the oil though.



Another question for the new system..... how does it compensate for carbon induced NoX production?

 

Except when it comes to mountain bikes :-k

 

The filtering media will be changed at 50,000 miles and not the average 10,000 miles in a semi-truck application. The F250 hasn't had an oil change in over 4 years. No dirty oil to discard just the element. You must have a engine in good condition and use a full synthetic oil.

The system replaces the on filter that is on the engine, no extra "stuff" required. The test units are about the same size of a standard filter unit..

Heat is what breaks down the elements and heat is caused by friction of the contaminates against the components. Eliminate the contaminates and you have less friction and less heat build up.

 

Whats funny...... I am rereading the original post and have to come back to the original statement...... the very first note is the disclaimer that reads..... this may not help at all.


Based on the condition of your engine you will never.......

That leaved it very open to ALOT of interpretation as to the effectiveness.

 

I'm pretty sure the little explosions inside the cylinders are causing a lot of the heat.

 

True only to worn out oil. There is an additive in all oil that suspeneds solids<IE carbon> in teh oil, effectivly removing it from the oil, stopping it from building up "gunk and sludge"..... Normal oil temps will still break down and use up the additives in the oil. Oil turning black is actually a sign that the oil is working<suspending the particulates in the oil>

Clean oil in a vehicle such your demo vehicle can be a sign that you are actually having internal build up over oil that is working properly.........

How is the filter system compensating for engine blowby?

You oweme a cup of coffee, and a laptop cleaning......

Controlled burning, controlled burning.............Explosions lead to damage, and higher emissions....IE carbon induced Nox Emissions


Y-not..... Sorry to be picking your product apart, there are just WAY to may unanswered question as to How it is possible to extend the life of oil with just a different filter, and synthetic oil.....

Ohhhhh, one more question on the filter....... Smaller micron, same amount of surface area...... I am assuming its using a normal filter bypass valve for plugging of the filter right? So its currently setup for 50K service, how is it possible that this is still even filtering at 50K miles when physics tell us it just cannot last that long under those circumstances? IE.... smaller micron plugs faster, engine blowby leaves carbin depostis<solids> in teh oil, that get trapped in teh filter....... How does the smaller micron filter that is generally the same size as a standard filter not plug up and go into bypass mode?

 

I will be back, need to run some errands that might turn into some fishing for a bit....... I not ignoring new posts..... just tired of the couch

 

thats contrary to my experience when i was into modding cars. all the parts i put on were all dynoed, and all made significantly more power without increasing emissions. in fact, after i got my reprogrammed ecu, it actually ran cleaner than stock because most stock ecu's ran pig rich. adding an intake will not affect emissions on a maf equipped vehicle because the hot wire sensor detect more air flow and adds fuel accordingly.

it is true just using 91 octane without the advanced timing map will actually make you lose power and pollute more from more unburnt fuel. thats why all those gas additives that guarantee you pass smog are just alcohol based additives that make you run more lean during the smog check.

again, do the visual inspection to make sure all my emissions stuff is hooked up. who cares what parts i have on as long as i pass the sniffer. the only reason they have carb eo numbers is to make money for the state. like you said, even the kn intake has an exemption and its not exactly the best designed.

 

Actually, Maf mods are the worst thing can happen to emissions, specially when I see peopl remove the honeycomb material in front of the hot wires..... that stuff is supposed to straighten out air flow across your sensors. The first part though, it really depends on the vehicle, I absolutly agree with cleaner than stock post reprogramming.... you just took the new add ons and matched the mapping system to match whats coming in and going out. ABout being pig rich, afain that depends on teh vehicle too, Nissans and hondas tend to be rather lean from the factory, honda acautll added a tiny little third intake to compensate for how lean they were running.

All depends on teh vehicle being tuned, and whats being taken off, and added to.

Your fuel additives are not alcohol, thats illegal in california. Belive it or not, additives that claim to improve emisions actually amke yoru vehicle run a bit rich, enough to run the temps up on the cats, helping them to clean the exhaust better.

I will absolutly agree, the only two things that truthfully should be looked at during an emissions test is tailpipe emissions, and evep capability.....On a hot day, your car can lose a couple gallons is the evap system does not work, thats raw fuel going straight to atmosphere.


I list alot of general info when talking about bolt on performance parts, because thats what it is, all vehicles will react differnetly to the same systems being bolted on until the programming is amtched.... which from your post I can see you understand...

 

So let me get this straight, your claim is that is takes place of the filter, there isnt any parts added to the system, thre is no engine modifications, its not a standard filter.....Your claiming it increased Fuel milage on deisel vehicles, it completly eliminates NoX emmisions, increases horsepower, and you no longer have to change the oil.... all this is done by using a new oil filtration system, and synthetic oil. Filter is being changed on a 50K interval

Ok, I just still cannot see how these claims can be possible. Your claiming its a smaller micron filter thats still the same size as a standard filter<relativly>so the smaller micron by physics kills the idea of it running longer between changing, the substrate would become plugged faster than a normal filter would, there still is no valid explanation as to how an oil filtration system alone can increase power and milage ON ANY VEHICLE, Zero explanation how it can change conbustion chamber temps to reduce/eliminate Nox emmisions<filter system on teh oil alone..... its impossible>

Ok to look at how possible this filter is lasting longer and filtering better...... there is no substrate at all, and it would have to be using a catalyst instead of a substrate. That would require either some type of a system to increase heat in the filter alone, killing the idea of reducing oil heat, seeing how any type of catalyzing would in fact increase the oil temp.

To disprove the particulates reducing engine temp, specially on a deisel, the fact the engine is turning in the first place is enough to prove there will still be a massive heat load on the oil, deisel engines have ZERO ignition system for the fuel, its done purely by compressing the air in a very hi ratio system that by the nature of the laws of physics raises the air temp exponentially as it is compressed, the fuel is injected into the extremly hot air, and self ignites........ Rotation of a deisel engine alone with no fuel will overheat the engine if not kept in check.....IE, a test that is done in teh designing phase of a deisel engine, no fuel, coolant and oil only.... external electic motor to crank the engine at operating speeds. Deisels are built at a range of 18 to 22 to 1 compression ratios, at that ratio I dont care how clena the oil is, it cannot repeat cannot<read Impossible by the laws of physics> reduce the engine drag enough to have any noticable temo change in how it runs, not can it reduce drag enough to increase fuel ecomony...... Period... its just not possible, without MAJOR engine modification.

To the coming question about glow plugs being what ignited the fuel.... no, glow plugs are only found on deisel engines that are incorperating the use of a precumbustion chamber, those engines that are on the low end of the CR scale<18-1> all they do is help the PCC get hot before you start the engine, then they shut off for the duration while the vehicle is running, if ther is no PCC, there is no glow plug to be had in the first place.... think chevy engine VS cummins engine.


Its not questions I have that need to be answered, its questions that answer themselves as you look at what the claims for the product are. there is just no physical way an oil filtration system can do what is claimed. You have to have some way of replenishing the stabilants in the oil, synthetic or not, the stabilants are the same, you have to have a way to continually remove particulates that are building up without the filtration system plugging and going into a bypass mode.

YOu just cannot do this with an engine that has 200k miles on it, there is too much wear and blowby internally to just add this to it, and see these changes, there HAS to be internal modifications, and most likely fuel system delivery changes< Much further than just tuning the ele system, as in new injectors, new pressures ETC>You cannot take a wornengine, add a filtration system and better oil, and gain performance without engine repair/modification..... oil does not do anything for existing engine wear, which in every case, an engine with 200k miles on is does have.


Is there any scientific test that have been done....IE this system added to RANDOM vehicles that consistantly show this claimed improvement and change to how the vehicle operates?






By the way, most any vehicle on the road already goes into bypass mode between halfway, and 3/4 of the way to the next oil change as it is.













And just because I am curious.... whats the cost going to run on this magik system that is in the works..... dont need exact, gimme a ballpark figure here

 

How does a car running richer make the temps go up in the cat? I think you've got that backwards. EGT's go up when you are running lean, which in turn will heat up the cat/s more.

 

You are right about the improved smog. My only issue is that I want to see results in the least restrictive way possible and I believe the market is better equipped to solve the problems than the federal gov't. For example, it isn't the gov't smog program that caused the decrease in smog emissions. The gov't did nothing but put in place some standards and tell free market to deal with it. The private sector came up with the technologies that met the standards. Without the free market, where would we be?

Generally speaking, the gov't has made a mess of environmental laws. And now they are too toxic a political issue for anybody to touch. For example, in many cases the laws prohibit considering cost/benefit (I will have to pull out old law school notes to give you a concrete example) for $$ spent on the environment. In the case of air quality, we spend an exorbitant amount for only a very small improvement at this point.

All things considered, I love having clean air to breathe, but at what cost? Big picture, if smog kills 10,000 people per year on average and you could save 5,000 people for 10 million dollars; 8,000 people for 500 million dollars; or 9,000 people for a billion dollars, where would you draw the line? What if you save the 5,000 and apply the $990,000,000 you didn't spend for the additional 4,000 people to save 50,000 people in other areas? I know this sort of analysis is somewhat macabre, but these things are cannot be considered (by law) under the current environmental framework.

Instead, there is an air quality limit that must be met irrespective of the cost. Moreover, the air quality limits when they are set are almost always arbitrary -- in certain cases, the standard is impossible to meet (e.g., arsenic levels in the phoenix water supply because of the naturally occurring arsenic at the source.)

If a fraction of the money was spent to incentivize the private sector, we could be were we are today or better because the money would be spent better. Moreover, if standards were adjustable once it was clear what the cost was to get to the next resistance point, we could save countless millions, if not billions, of dollars.

So when I say I don't agree, what I mean is that I don't consider our current regime of environmental regulation to be a stellar success, even though we breath cleaner air, drink cleaner water, etc. The truth is, the standards have resulted in cleaner air, etc., but at an exorbitant cost and at the expense of using those funds for more cost efficient projects. The problem is, the gov't hasn't any incentive to be cost efficient and the environmental framework imposed by the federal gov't in the 60s and 70s is outdated. So, although our smog problem (and Phoenix's -- btw, Phoenix still regularly fails air quality standards -- mostly due to particulate matter in the form of dust when there is any wind whatsoever) is better, I wish it was better on a more cost efficient basis.

And I think the free market is the best place to get it done. Smog checks are a pain and only marginally helpful even if you only consider the lost productivity of the people who have to bring their vehicles and the dollars that would have been spend on something other than having a hose attached to their tailpipes. I mean, we have pretty clean air now -- how much is this diesel program going to cost to get marginally better air quality?

 

In a diesel engine, the more fuel you give it, the higher the EGTs. Unlike a gas engine, you can keep pouring more and more diesel fuel into the engine, and it'll just give you more power and higher EGTs...and more smoke.

 

EGT doesnt affect the running temp of a cat.... the actuall catalyzing does..... same principal when using a cutting torch, it snot the accetalyne that is cutting themetal, its the Oxygen, IE.... a table cutter only used enough gas to start the process, then teh gas is shut off using only the oxygen till the cut is complete.


For shit and giggles, you can shut your car off, and watch the cat temps continue to rise. A little added fuel helps to keep the cat temps up, by continuing the catalyzation process, IE chemical reaction insdie the cat.... Its not burning inside the cat, its like seperating molecules and rejoining them in a proer safe state..... which created heat...... Little air in the right times to stoke the heat and process.. EGT doesnt go up from running lean, it goes up from timing being under advanced, lean raised combustion chamber temps, timing has mroe to do with EGT than fuel mixture<not syaing FM has nothing to do with it> If lean was more of it, Deisels would be melting the exhausts off all the time, by there very nature they run very lean.

EGT only work with teh heat inside the cat during warmup, and newer cars not even taht much, there are not Cats that are electrically heated, so they can be working withint 30 seconds, instead of having to hit the 600 degree mark to "lite off". Iknow its a little wierd to understand, but this is why we dont just run our cars lean and clean on the injection side..... there is always that little spurt of richness added<read O2 crosscounts from rich to lean to rich> which give just neough fuel to keep the catalyzation process active and ready to go should a situation be needed to clena up alot in a hurry, such as a random miss from a little water that was in teh fuel, or a random shift as you panic stopped ETC....


Rambled a bit there.... in short Cats do not reach peak temps from exhaust gas temps alone.... if that was the case the manifold and everything would be the same temp as the cat, and that is not the case, cats are generally at least 200 degrees hotter thanteh rest of the exhaust system, and generally gain 200 degrees from inlet to outlet.












Here is a cool kicker for everyone, big, really big performance item noone ever does on a street vehicle..... Temp controlled fuel cells...... Best way to maintain a consistant performance, is to have consistant fuel temps and densities.....

 

In this case, a little bottle of additive cannot possibly make an engine run rich enough to drive EGT's up.

In most cases, running lean will drive EGT's up and get the cats nice and hot to be more efficient.

However, contrary to popular belief, a lot of guys when they first start playing around wtih tuning, run SUPER rich, just to be "safe". What they don't realize is when you run super rich, after a certain point, you increase the likelihood of detonation again and EGT's go up. People think ONLY running lean will cause detonation and EGT's to go up. Not true.

But yeah, I gotta agree with Rob on this one. No way do those additives make you run rich. You get diminishing returns with unburnt fuel versus hot catalytic converter temps.

 

Read my last post...... EGT's dont drive up cat temps..... chemical reactions do
You rright, most people go rich first ebcause you wont fry the heads that way by litterally melting the combustion chambers from going too lean....

You right again that the additive isnt going to make a vehicle noticably rich, but for the way a cat runs... it does..... these additives... increase octane, which in turn slows the burning.... putting more still burning fuel into the exhaust, which catalyzes in teh Cat, creting more heat in teh cat, raizing the cats temp......Lean will only give a cat a burst of temp untill what fuel there has catalyzed


an example of a chemical catalyzation most everyone here has at one time done...... JB weld..... nostice the heat that stuff build up when your mixing it..... same thing, just a different outcome






P.S...... this would be why a missfire adding raw fuel into teh cat converter causes them to melt down internally.... too much catalyzing at once for it to handle its ownheat ouwput.... Never will that happen from a lean conditon.... I dont care how lean you get it

 

That is true, the work being done by the cat does contribute to catalytic converter temps, BUT, the starting point that which the delta occurs is based on EGT's.

You're better off driving the car at redline for a few minutes and smogging it than by running it rich, is my point.

 

Just the opposite is true for diesel engines (the topic of this discussion).