Why This Moment Matters (Fallows)/Health Care Reform Poll - Merged threads

Love the options:

$9 LEADERS PAK: Send your Citizen Protest to Pelosi, Reid and all 10 Democrat House/Senate leaders (list)
$29 ENTIRE SENATE: Leaders Pak PLUS all 59 Senators who voted for ObamaCare (list)
$69 ENTIRE HOUSE: Leaders Pak PLUS all 220 Democrats in the House voting for ObamaCare (list)
$85 ENTIRE CONGRESS: ALL members of Congress who voted for ObamaCare (220 in House, 59 in Senate) (list)

 

How did we get in the practice of employers providing health care for employees in first place?
After WW2, there was a labor shortage and the govt placed caps on wages. In order to attract workers, companies began offering benefit packages.
When governments mess with the natural economic balances, eventually dysfunctions arise from the price/wage interventions.

 

Weird.... It was free (or it is for me).

 

thanks for bringing this up. although i know there were some big problems during the iraq war at walter reed, my military healthcare was the best i ever had- efficient, high quality, preventive care, no out-of-pocket cost, etc. almost as good as what our senators and representatives enjoy...

of course, the military is another example of a well-run government program.

btw- we already have rationing now. it's just that the insurance companies are making the critical decisions instead of your doctor--if you have insurance (1 in 4 calfornians don't).

 

"Ask anyone who's been in the military how good government ran healthcare is.."

Why stop there? Ask any Congressman how good government provided healthcare can be. Just don't ask how much it costs the taxpayers.

 

The only logic in HCR is you can fool most of the people ...
We're going to pay for 6 years of HCR with 10 years of taxes? Simple deception, no serious logic there.

Buying votes with taxpayer money is unbecoming(*). Hiding the bill until the last minute is unbecoming.
Pelosi: "Let's pass the bill so we can see what's in it."

Politicians have deceived the voters. When Obama was campaigning he ripped Hillary Clinton for her plan of mandatory insurance. Why have campaigns if you can't judge what the politicians will do?

(*) Cornhusker Carve-out, Louisiana Purchase, Florida Medicare, Connecticut Hospitals, etc.

 

and it's not just anger. it's terrorist-style threats of violence. the republican leadership--and faux news--has been encouraging this kind of behavior (combined with the republican history of violence in the civil rights, pro-choice, and gay rights movements) since obama came into office. pathetic.

also- what happened to fiscally conservative repubs? all the projections are that this health care reform will reduce the deficit (remember when cons wanted to make balancing the budget a constitutional amendment--seems funny after bush!) by 100+ Billion over the next 10 years, which is one of the biggest reasons every other industrialized country has it.

 

Reduce the deficit = raise taxes. (10 years of taxes for 6 years of HCR; steal student loan interest from banks; steal 500 billion from Medicare ...)

 

Off topic posts deleted.

This is the final request to keep this thread on topic.

If anyone wishes to discuss something other than healthcare reform, start a new thread. Any further hijacks will result in this thread being closed and any new threads on the subject being deleted.

Thanks in advance.

 

[youtube]RpOUctySD68[/youtube]

 

What do Americans want - CBS poll:

 

Polls can be made to reflect what ever you want them to. All you have to do is word them to elicit the response that's desired.

Polls are for those who have no other argument left for debate.

 

More "feel good" liberal crap that the majority of Americans oppose.

Politicians... piss on 'em!

 

The irony is that the lawsuit the states are filing is based primarily on the "forced mandate" - which is a GOP originated idea and first touted by McCain to counter Hillary's plan! :lol:

And will be one of the first things deleted due its unconstitutionality as has been stated by many on both sides of the aisle.

Gotta love the Pubs.

 

..

 

I thought it was supposed to be cheaper but it's going to cost me 63% more under the new system.

Crooks!!!

 

This is definitely off topic when incorrectly attributing actions like violent demonstrations to only one side. There is a Democratic history of violence during the times you mentioned also. Unfortunately, the splinter groups on both sides tend to take matters beyond civil debate. Please don't delude yourself or others that only one side participates in that style of madness.

Pathetic is a term both sides rightfully use to describe each other, IMHO.

Fiscally conservative people dislike this bill because of the cost. Medicare/Medicaid costs nearly 10 times what it was predicted to cost. And that is just one program. Has there ever been a government program run at cost, on time? I will be willing to bet a large amount that this bill is NOT balanced and will cost quite a bit more than predicted... wanna bet...:wave:

Ohhh and that polling/statistic thing is pretty funny ... both side use the same arguments against the other when the other is in power or wins a battle.... again both sides are quite pathetic.

 

There are more costs buried in the 2000+ pages ----


While Congress spent the last year debating how to provide health insurance for the uninsured, a little-known provision slipped into the heath care law that could cost some Americans upwards of $2,000 a year.

The Class Act, otherwise known as the Community Living Assistance Services and Support Act, is the federal government's first long-term care insurance program.

Under-reported and the under the radar of most lawmakers, the program will allow workers to have an average of roughly $150 or $240 a month, based on age and salary, automatically deducted from their paycheck to save for long-term care.

The Congressional Budget Office expects the government will collect $109 billion in premiums by 2019.

Supporters say the program will relieve pressure on Medicaid and should help keep us out of nursing homes by enabling Americans to save for something most will eventually need -- assistance in eating, bathing or dressing in their old age.

Opponents say the provision is little more than a short-term revenue fix that will eventually add to the federal deficit.

"This is a scary proposition where the government passed a huge new entitlement program with gimmicks and tricks and the American people don't know they will be automatically enrolled in it by their employer if they don’t watch out," said Rep. Devin Nunes (R-CA).

Nunes says Republicans were blindsided by the provision because they were unable to see the final bill until the very end. But Democratic supporters say the provision, which was championed by the late Sen. Ted Kennedy, should not be controversial.

"It promotes independence and choice for people who need long-term care, and over time it will help millions stay where they want to, which is at home," says Jim Firman, director of the National Council on Aging.

Scheduled to go into effect in January, actual deductions could take place in 2012.
Here's how the program will work:

-- The federal government will approach employers next year about alerting workers to the proposed deduction.

-- The deduction will work on a sliding scale based on age. Younger workers will be charged less, older workers more. The Congressional Budget Office pegged the average monthly deduction at $146. The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services put it higher, at $240.

 

Good or Bad, the health care system needs reform. This is as good a starting point as any they have offered before ( as far as I can tell, it's the ONlY one offered so far).
My health care is pretty good, but in that I'm fortunate enough to have insurance through an employeer. On the other hand, a good friend is still paying off a hospital visit 3 years later because they didn't have health insurance, but were and are employeed.

So, I will say again, reform is needed, and it is a good start.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100531/hl_nm/us_health_3