Have you read the bill? Does it just mention Hispanics? No, it is any illegal immigrant. How are we terrorizing them? By asking if they are in our country legally? Maybe you should read about how Mexico treats illegal immigrants in its country, then try and spout this BS. I suggest next time, know what the hell you are talking about and you won't make yourself look like an idiot.
they dont have to spell it out. Its quite evident who its being directed at. Look at all the hundreds of racists websites popping up with people actually taking it seriously. Look at the news. People like Savage or Beck getting prime time and saying some pretty crazy cruel things. Obviously it promotes racial profiling. Its more than just immigration if you ask me thats all im saying.
Are you trying to tell me that a bunch of white people born here have no idea about how the immigration process works? I'm shocked... I'm a Canadian green card holder, and I'm not worried about the Arizona law at all. Why not? Because I'm lily white. No one is going to ask to see my green card. Don't worry though, a bunch of white people will be along shortly to tell you that racial profiling doesn't happen, and even if it does, it really isn't a big deal, because it doesn't have an impact on them. (I wish I was making that up, by the way...but I'm not. We had an interesting interlude in another Arizona thread where a person who will never be pulled over for driving while black opined that it wasn't really a big deal at all. A black person posted on that thread, but we pulled him over...)
Yes, we've been over this as well. Much like the argument that abusing Iraqi prisoners wasn't really a problem because Saddam Hussein was worse, the fact that Mexico treats illegal immigrants horribly shouldn't be a reason to sink to their level. That's a little like saying, "Sure, I hit my dogs, but since I don't hang them or electrocute them like Michael Vick did, I'm really a good guy."
We already have that with DUI checkpoints. I don't have a problem with having to carry an ID at all times as I already do so. The laws also state it is illegal to hire undocumented workers as well. What is wrong with enforcing these laws as they are written?
Immigration, including illegal immigration, is nothing but a result of free-market capitalism. I understand, to certain extent, people on both sides of the argument, but as long as we provide jobs which are not available in Mexico, people will keep coming. There is evidence that certain ills of our society have been caused by illegal immigration. There is also evidence that the American economy has benefited, and it still does, from the low cost labor that illegal immigrants provide. It is possible (although not easy), to enforce the existing laws, to limit the impact of illegal immigration. That means going not only after the people who are here illegally, but also after the people and companies who provide these immigrants with job opportunities. My question is this? Is it possible for the economy to survive, and for us to maintain the current quality of life without the low paying jobs that illegal immigrants do? Is our middle and upper class willing to pay twice of three times as much for an American citizen to take care of their children? Are we ready to pay $10 for a pound of strawberries, or 3 times as much as we do now for somebody to come and do our gardening? Let's take a moment or two to think about these questions before we jump the gun and blame everything that is wrong with the country on illegal immigration. After all, these people are just playing a game which rules have been created by the US, the champion of laissez-faire, hands-off, free-market capitalism.
Perhaps you should also focus your resentment at some of the many threads that have used the term "trail nazi" here on STR. Here's a few to start you off: http://www.socaltrailriders.org/forum/ride-reports/11247-anybody-know-if-aliso-wood-open-2.html http://www.socaltrailriders.org/forum/ride-reports/19751-double-bagged-mt-waterman-mt-isip.html http://www.socaltrailriders.org/forum/general-discussion/6322-fullerton-loop-danger.html I'm sorry but you picked a hell of a time to become sensitive to the historical origins of common political jargon.
YOu know, your right..... Its directed at teh south of the border folks..... Why??????? Because thats the problem in AZ, thats were its coming from, thats the influx...... This is the part that pisses me off....... Its already Law, AZ is jsut going to enforce something that every state should be doing already Dont have to chose one........ Its already Law in California that your supposed to have ID with you at any and all times as it is..... And yes, if an officer asks you for ID, and you dont have it.... You can and should be arrested. Did you also know that this goes into effect whenyou reach the age of sixteen in the state of California? DL or not, you are supposed to go to the DMV and get a proper ID..... I think the answer is simlple..... The DL should list if your a citizen or not, if your not, then you should already have your documentation with you at any and all times. Why you ask........ BECAUSE ITS ALREADY THE EFFIN LAW...... I will admit though, this law or bill if you will is directed at a certain class/race of people...... But its not a direct action to hate on the Latino race....... Sorry for anyone of Latino decent taht will be affected by this...... But stop blaming the people trying to get control over illegal residents.... and start getting mad at the ****ers that are breaking the goddamned law in the first place..... Stop defending people who are breaking the law with the cover of...... "but latino's are going to get harrassed..." or" its unethical" or" its just not right" Come on people.... they are breaking the law, and it NEEDS to be adressed properly, if that means prison time, or deportation whatever...... We as a nation need to stand up, and enforce the law. Noone can argue that illeagal immigration is a problem, Noone can argue that it isnt a drain on our society, noone can argue that it isnt a drain on our medical provisions, noone can argue that its not a decent contributor to our tax levels...... And sadly.... noone can argue that the problem isnt coming as a majority from our neighbors to the south. I really hate being the one to point the last part out but fact is fact. There are many ways to come here legally, I openly accept and encourage immigration to the US.... just do it right, learn the language, learn the law.... Pay your taxes like every other American.... Sorry for the rant, but we really need to be able to enforce some kind of law here..... Last bit of food for thought, you get rear ended, your car is totalled, you were hit by an illeagal immigrant....... Guess what... YOu go to the hospital with major whiplash, concussion..... they get to walk off without any recourse of punishment because people are too worried about enforcing the fact they should be taken into custody to await a deportation....... YOu hit someone<accident of course> You get to deal with all the fallout and pay for damages ETC........... I actually find it sad that us as Americans have come to the point of using terms such as Nazi so non challantly.... Like its just another word.
^^ uh, yeah. "learn the language." that's a good one... we wouldn't have an illegal immigration "problem" if our country, i.e., leaders, didn't want them here to prop up the economy. most of your "facts" won't hold up to scrutiny. do a little research before you think you have it all figured out. and, yet again, i didn't hear you mention the employers who are also breaking the "effin law." they're mostly white; maybe we should start rounding them up and send them back where they came from... (this message has been approved by gray) :beer:
I shouldnt have to say that....... Its the law as well..... Yes my shop will litterally come in and remove you if your documentation is not in line..... I do not support the hiring of illeagals whatsoever....... I find it hard to belive that any of our polititians would think that for one second that having the illeagal immigrants here would in anyways "prop" up the economy.... If they are not contributing theya re not proping anything up. For the record...... I have said that before, I have listed that ANYONE that hires someone who does not have a legal right to work in the US should in fact lose there business license, and possibly serve a punishment accordingly as the law provides. Those that hire someone that does not have the right to work here.... are also those that are breaking the effin law......... In no way was my original statement specifically directed at just the people illeagally residing in the US. I come off really hard ass with what I say, the thing that pisses me off the most is.... when we have a problem at home, someone breaks into our car, somoene punches you, someone does something that is wrong.... we as a people want action taken, we want those that wronged us directly to be punished.... Why? because they broke the law..... but moreso because we saw it effect us directly. Thing with this is you dont see the effect directly, so people let it slide........ or come up with whatever excuse why we shouldnt be enforcing these laws........... Bottom ine, when you ask law enforcement to enforce laws..... they should be enforcing ALL of the laws, not just the ones that are pertinant to our immediate situation. Side note...... PEOPLE..... stop crying when you get a ticket for speeding, running a stop sign ETC..... Your breaking the law, its a punishment.... own up to it.
*Story* I use to go to take a night art class for oil painting....a few years ago. I sat next to a guy who was repeating the class for about the 4th time I think he said. It was a combo beg/int/advanced class. He was beyond advanced. He use to sit by me and give me pointers...tell me to paint what I see, outside of the instructors guidelines. To find my style so to speak. When I spent time really painting...I did well, and yeh...I got what he meant. It may be different....but true artists always find their own way. Class ended and I thought about the "kid" a few times...he was about 22. His ability was off the charts... One day (fast forward about 6 months) he came into a facility I was working at and told me he was able to paint a mural on the wall through one of the classes. The whole wall was his gig...and he spent hours every day laying it out. He would come up and sit and eat lunch with me and chit chat...it was cool. He said ...well I'm finally fanagling my way into Cal State Long Beach....I'm soooo excited! I said wow, scholarship OBVIOUSLY right? He said to me..."No Kelly...I'm illegal." "My parents brought me here when I was 8....I have no access to anything in the US, I can't even get a drivers lis." I said..."Oh wow...I'm...so sorry....(lotta pausing and sighing)" "So there's no way to fix this?" He told me his parents missed the amnesty window...he has no way to go back, has nobody down there....and the wait would be at least 12 years. I felt...sad. Even writing this it makes me choke up a bit for his situation...his whole life is lacking any substance due to his parents decision of illegal immigration. He skirts life in a legal manner as a daily habit. His health care is found in a long line of substandard facilities. Is his life better? Maybe. Maybe not. Hard to know the bottom of the what if barrel....but I tell you, I'd hate to be him. I'm not here to be preachy....but I've worked in the education side of illegal immigration for the last 15 years....it's hard and sad. We have no one to blame but ourselves in a lot of ways...I hope we find a way to turn things right side up.
To say people wont do the jobs illegal immigrants do is crap. The low paying jobs they do is usually due to the lack of any skills and/or not speaking English. Last I checked Ive seen plenty of citizens working at Mc Donalds, Del Taco ect..........
I feel for your friend, I really do.... Its truly a sad situation that some people have found themselves in with parents decisions..... Situations like this there needs to be a way that someone who is here can go through a process to earn citizenship. I know with the way I come across sometimes I seem like the.... lets scoop them up and sendm home type, but Im not. If someone is here already, be it their families brought them, their visa ran out whatever.... Lets just say they go to INS, get a temo visa and start the process.... They should at that point be allowed to stay as long as they are working towards the reqs to become a citizen........ I cannot agree more. When I was out of work, I didnt give a rats ass what I had to do, I had to pay the rent, I had to keep food on the table, if that meant I was cleaning portapoties... thats what it means... if it means I am working a feild.... so be it.... Yes I have done both at one point and time.
yea, i've seen tons of white folk lining up to work the fields, mow/blow all day, wash cars, clean houses, etc., etc... (where do you guys live?) i have a buddy in durango that owns a pizza hut; on average, the legal locals that he hires last one day. they either don't know how to work hard or aren't willing to.
You must have missed my posts on this topic a while back. Not only to the Nazis but also to the civil rights movement. It's a total disgrace. In those two instances you had Jews being killed by the hundreds of thousands and blacks being lynched and harassed and treated like animals. These people want you to believe this is equivalent to both of these things and it completely turns my stomach.
Make this an option for people on unemployment. You're a history buff Doug, you remember how your grandparents had to work through the depression?
