i think reagan said it best: "We have consistently supported a legalization program which is both generous to the alien and fair to the countless thousands of people throughout the world who seek legally to come to America. The legalization provisions in this act will go far to improve the lives of a class of individuals who now must hide in the shadows, without access to many of the benefits of a free and open society. Very soon many of these men and women will be able to step into the sunlight and, ultimately, if they choose, they may become Americans." and echoed by mccain a generation later: “Amnesty has to be an important part because there are people who have lived in this country for 20, 30 or 40 years, who have raised children here and pay taxes here and are not citizens. That has to be a component of it.” (well, at least he was for it before he was against it)
How is that moving goalposts? Is it that complicated to follow the rules? Both parents are citizens. Therefore, the child is a citizen. Neither parent is a citizen, so the child is not a citizen. I could even see granting citizenship to a child of a citizen and non-citizen. Seems like hard logic to follow. So, just because people managed to enter the country illegally and have a child, that child should automatically be granted citizenship? Am I the only one that makes no sense to? You are somehow arguing against points that I never even made. You talk about moving goalposts, yet, I believe that there is already a process in place for applying for citizenship, no? I'm guessing you have a driver's license? So, at some point in your life you decided you wanted to drive. You went to the DMV, followed the process and ended up with a license to operate a motor vehicle. Something similar is really too much to ask of people wanting to live permanently in this country? What a novel concept. Of course I have nativist sentiment. I love this country and would not choose to live anywhere else. You seem to believe that I think any immigrants don't deserve to live here and missed my point entirely. I am just asking for them to respect the processes that were put in place....similar requirements that are in place in any (1st world) country. Go look at the requirements to enter Canada legally. Here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/become.asp Wow, I found the requirements for both the U.S. and Canada in less than 5 seconds. http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/us...nnel=d84d6811264a3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD If I chose to move to another country, I would find what is required of me and abide by that. How is that so difficult and crazy to ask of people entering this country? Apparantly I am off my rocker to instill some sort of order to a portion of society that contributes very little and definitely reaps more than they sow. You are welcome to contribute as much of your income as you would like to support healthcare, public transportation or whatever other charity case you want to aid the cause. Some of us choose not to. Out of all your remarks, your only point is that having a Constitution is a good thing because it allows people to enter the country illegally and their offspring are automatically citizens. If that's the case, then obviously we have to agree to disagree. So no matter how you get here, you should have all the rights of an American citizen? All you have to do is step foot in the door, no questions asked? You want me to carry proof of my citizenship with me at all times? I wouldn't have a problem with it. The people that seem to bitch the most about it are the ones that are going to get deported. Cry me a river. Come to this country and take advantage of all that it offers and then complain about it when the legal system designed to protect freedoms is also the one that boots your ass out of the country.
Honestly, I didn't read the rest. If you have a good point in there that I'm not responding to, it'll have to be addressed by a better man than I. A person born on US soil is a US citizen, guaranteed by the constitution. Whether that makes sense to your or not, or even if it's a good idea or not, is frankly irrelevant.
Anybody see a pattern here?????? CALIFORNIA'S MOST WANTED FUGITIVES Publication No. 2010-01 Issued on: February 19, 2010 Information Current as of: April 08, 2010 WANTED FOR MURDER Photo Date: 09/16/2000 MARCO ANTONIO CAMACHO Date of Warrant: 01/24/2008 Agency: NAPA POLICE DEPARTMENT Description Birthdate: 09/03/1980 Sex: Male Race: Hispanic Height: 6'00" Weight: 160 Hair Color: Black Eyes: Brown Scars/Marks/Tattoos: TATTOO, EAR, LEFT/THE NUMBER "3" TATTOO, EAR, RIGHT/LETTER "X" Aliases: Marco Antonio Fletes Place of Birth: Mexico Crime InformationSuspect Camacho is wanted for murder by the Napa Police Department. In September 2000, Camacho was at a social function at the Napa County Fairgrounds. While at this event, Camacho got into a verbal argument with the victim. During this argument, ... (more) WANTED FOR MURDER Photo Date: 04/07/2004 ALBERT MAGALLANES Date of Warrant: 05/21/2004 Agency: VISALIA POLICE DEPARTMENT Description Birthdate: 06/06/1986 Sex: Male Race: Unknown Height: 5'10" Weight: 150 Hair Color: Black Eyes: Brown Scars/Marks/Tattoos: SCAR, FOREHEAD/SCAR ON FOREHEAD Aliases: Unknown Place of Birth: Ca Crime InformationOn May 7, 2004, Visalia police officers responded to the 1000 block of N. Cain in Visalia, CA where a drive-by shooting occurred with one person killed. During the investigation, Albert Magallanes was identified as the shooter. There is a current a... (more) WANTED FOR KIDNAP & RAPE OF A JUVENILE Photo Date: Unknown JULIO RANGEL CEJA Date of Warrant: 08/08/2008 Agency: LOS ANGELES CA/DOJ BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION Description Birthdate: 04/22/1990 Sex: Male Race: Hispanic Height: 5'03" Weight: 150 Hair Color: Black Eyes: Brown Scars/Marks/Tattoos: Unknown Aliases: Unknown Place of Birth: Mexico Crime InformationOn 7/26/08, Ceja and a co-conspirator kidnapped and forcibly raped a 14 year old female. During the multiple rapes, the suspects repeatedly beat the victim and advised that they planned to kill her. The victim later escaped after injuring one of the ... (more) WANTED FOR MURDER Photo Date: Unknown JOSE GABRIEL GIRON Date of Warrant: 05/23/2007 Agency: RIVERSIDE CA/DOJ BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION Description Birthdate: 06/12/1988 Sex: Male Race: Unknown Height: 5'06" Weight: 145 Hair Color: Brown Eyes: Brown Scars/Marks/Tattoos: Unknown Aliases: Unknown Place of Birth: Unknown Crime InformationMembers of the Cathedral City criminal street gang were congregating in a local park when rival gang members entered the park and began arguing about graffiti.Giron and a rival gang member were arguing over the rights to tag in an area that both gang... (more) Suspects should be considered ARMED AND DANGEROUS. Do not attempt to apprehend any of these individuals. Contact the IOC or local police if you have information regarding these individuals. Bureau of Investigation and Intelligence Intelligence Operations Center - 916-227-1280 or 888-834-8200 E-Mail Address: [email protected] California Department of Justice Office of the Attorney General Bureau of Investigation and Intelligence CALIFORNIA'S MOST WANTED FUGITIVES Publication No. 2010-01 Issued on: February 19, 2010 Information Current as of: April 08, 2010 WANTED FOR MURDER Photo Date: Unknown ANGEL JONATHAN GIRON Date of Warrant: 10/04/2006 Agency: RIVERSIDE CA/DOJ BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION Description Birthdate: Unknown Sex: Male Race: Hispanic Height: 5'07" Weight: 150 Hair Color: Brown Eyes: Brown Scars/Marks/Tattoos: Unknown Aliases: Unknown Place of Birth: Unknown Crime Information****************** Members of the Cathedral City criminal street gang were congregating in a local park when rival gang members entered the park. Giron's co-fugitive brother, Jose Giron, and a rival gang member were arguing over the rights to tag in... (more) WANTED FOR MURDER Photo Date: Unknown IMELDO MOLINA LAUREL Date of Warrant: 12/20/2005 Agency: SAN DIEGO COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE Description Birthdate: 08/03/1953 Sex: Male Race: Hispanic Height: 5'06" Weight: 175 Hair Color: Bald Eyes: Brown Scars/Marks/Tattoos: Unknown Aliases: Unknown Place of Birth: Unknown Crime InformationSheriff's deputies responded to a report of 10-12 gun shots in the town of Vista. While in route to the location, deputies received an additional call that the local fire station was responding to a call of an assault with a deadly weapon. Upon ar... (more) WANTED FOR RAPE Photo Date: Unknown ARTURO GONZALEZ GOMEZ Date of Warrant: 04/05/2007 Agency: SAN DIEGO POLICE DEPARTMENT Description Birthdate: 12/22/1987 Sex: Male Race: Hispanic Height: 5'08" Weight: 200 Hair Color: Black Eyes: Brown Scars/Marks/Tattoos: Unknown Aliases: Unknown Place of Birth: Mexico Crime InformationOn May 1, 2006 at 0800 hours an adult female was visiting from out of town and went for a run on the bridal trail in Balboa Park. The suspect jumped out from the bushes and pushed the victim to the ground. The victim broke away from the suspect and r... (more) WANTED FOR MURDER Photo Date: 01/10/2000 JUAN PINEDA ARROYO Date of Warrant: 12/05/2001 Agency: SAN DIEGO SHERIFFS DEPARTMENT Description Birthdate: 01/27/1965 Sex: Male Race: Unknown Height: 5'03" Weight: 118 Hair Color: Black Eyes: Brown Scars/Marks/Tattoos: Unknown Aliases: Unknown Place of Birth: Mexico Crime InformationOn May 1, 2001, a 14-year old girl was found murdered inside her residence in Vista, CA. Juan Pineda Arroyo was living at the residence at the time of the murder and has not been seen since. An arrest warrant has been issued for Arroyo for this mur... (more) Suspects should be considered ARMED AND DANGEROUS. Do not attempt to apprehend any of these individuals. Contact the IOC or local police if you have information regarding these individuals. Bureau of Investigation and Intelligence Intelligence Operations Center - 916-227-1280 or 888-834-8200 E-Mail Address: [email protected] California Department of Justice Office of the Attorney General Bureau of Investigation and Intelligence CALIFORNIA'S MOST WANTED FUGITIVES Publication No. 2010-01 Issued on: February 19, 2010 Information Current as of: April 08, 2010 WANTED FOR MURDER Photo Date: 01/20/1999 CARLOS CERVANTES Date of Warrant: 09/06/2000 Agency: OAKLAND POLICE DEPT Description Birthdate: 12/31/1975 Sex: Male Race: Hispanic Height: 5'07" Weight: 150 Hair Color: Black Eyes: Brown Scars/Marks/Tattoos: Unknown Aliases: Unknown Place of Birth: Ca Crime InformationDuring August 2001, subject shot two male victims in the head in Oakland, California. Both victims died and the subject is wanted for a double homicide. The subject is believed to be in California working on cars and installing stereos. ... (more) WANTED FOR MURDER Photo Date: 09/19/2005 ANGEL NUNEZ-CASTANEDA Date of Warrant: 09/19/2007 Agency: ALAMEDA COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE Description Birthdate: 05/23/1979 Sex: Male Race: Hispanic Height: 5'10" Weight: 170 Hair Color: Brown Eyes: Brown Scars/Marks/Tattoos: Unknown Aliases: Unknown Place of Birth: Mexico Crime InformationThis subject is wanted for murder out of Castro Valley, California WANTED FOR MURDER Photo Date: 05/31/1995 WILLIE ROSHAN SMITH Date of Warrant: 05/16/2005 Agency: OAKLAND POLICE DEPARTMENT Description Birthdate: 10/04/1975 Sex: Male Race: Black Height: 6'00" Weight: 160 Hair Color: Black Eyes: Brown Scars/Marks/Tattoos: Unknown Aliases: Unknown Place of Birth: Ca Crime InformationIn 2002, subject and two co-defendants committed an armed robbery in Oakland of various victims who were in a parking lot. One victim was shot and killed during the armed robbery. The two co-defendants have been convicted of the crimes and are in p... (more) WANTED FOR MURDER Photo Date: 01/01/2007 JOSE MANUEL HERNANDEZ Date of Warrant: 01/10/2008 Agency: ALAMEDA COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE Description Birthdate: 07/20/1988 Sex: Male Race: Hispanic Height: 5'05" Weight: 150 Hair Color: Black Eyes: Brown Scars/Marks/Tattoos: Unknown Aliases: Baby Place of Birth: Ca Crime InformationThis subject is wanted in connection with a murder that occurred in San Lorenzo, California Suspects should be considered ARMED AND DANGEROUS. Do not attempt to apprehend any of these individuals. Contact the IOC or local police if you have information regarding these individuals. Bureau of Investigation and Intelligence Intelligence Operations Center - 916-227-1280 or 888-834-8200 E-Mail Address: [email protected] California Department of Justice Office of the Attorney General Bureau of Investigation and Intelligence CALIFORNIA'S MOST WANTED FUGITIVES Publication No. 2010-01 Issued on: February 19, 2010 Information Current as of: April 08, 2010 WANTED FOR MURDER Photo Date: Unknown EDGAR HEBRAN LOPEZ Date of Warrant: 12/21/2007 Agency: MONTCLAIR POLICE DEPARTMENT Description Birthdate: 07/25/1986 Sex: Male Race: Hispanic Height: 5'11" Weight: 220 Hair Color: Brown Eyes: Brown Scars/Marks/Tattoos: Unknown Aliases: Edgar Lopez Salgado Place of Birth: Unknown Crime InformationOn Sunday, December 16, 2007, Edgar Lopez was in an alley in the 9300 block of Mills Street, Montclair, drinking with his friends when he became involved in an argument with the victim, who was a passenger in a vehicle. Lopez used a dark colored rev... (more) WANTED FOR ATTEMPTED MURDER Photo Date: 04/21/1995 JOEL VIDAL URENA Date of Warrant: 10/15/1996 Agency: COTATI POLICE DEPARTMENT Description Birthdate: 06/09/1971 Sex: Male Race: Hispanic Height: 6'00" Weight: 250 Hair Color: Black Eyes: Brown Scars/Marks/Tattoos: SCAR, FACE, NONSPECIFIC SCAR, HAND, RIGHT Aliases: Fat Man,fat Man Place of Birth: Santa Rosa, Ca Crime InformationIn October 1996, Urena and three additional suspects broke into a family residence in Cotati, California. The suspects were wearing horror masks during the incident. The suspects shot the teenage son in the leg and threatened his parents that they ... (more) Suspects should be considered ARMED AND DANGEROUS. Do not attempt to apprehend any of these individuals. Contact the IOC or local police if you have information regarding these individuals. 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^^ danny- they're all men?! maybe we should round THEM up...:lol: i didn't see anything there that said they were "illegals", at least 5 of them were born in this country. undocumented workers, as a population, commit fewer crimes and represent a smaller percentage of inmates. from the washington times: Fears about an illegal-immigrant crime wave helped propel passage of Arizona's tough new law that makes it a crime to be present in the state without legal documents. Like the law itself, those fears are based more on perception than reality. State Sen. Russell Pearce, chief sponsor of the law, often recites the names of recent victims of crimes allegedly committed in the state by illegal immigrants, including the slaying of a popular rancher in March. Drug-related crimes such as kidnapping are reportedly on the rise in Phoenix, fueling public support for the law. One big problem in the Arizona debate is that the perceptions about immigrants and crime do not square with the most basic data. After years of witnessing a rise in the number of illegal immigrants in their state, the people of Arizona are in reality less likely to be victims of crime than at any time in the past four decades. According to the most recent figures from the U.S. Department of Justice, the violent crime rate in Arizona in 2008 was the lowest it has been since 1971; the property crime rate fell to its lowest point since 1966. In the past decade, as illegal immigrants were drawn in record numbers by the housing boom, the rate of violent crimes in Phoenix and the entire state fell by more than 20 percent, a steeper drop than in the overall U.S. crime rate. Arizona suffers from its share of crime, but it is not out of proportion for a large city. Among similar-sized metro areas, such as Boston, Dallas, Detroit, San Francisco and Washington, D.C., Phoenix had the lowest violent crime rate in 2008. In Detroit, which is not known as a magnet for illegal Hispanic immigrants, the rate was three times that of Phoenix. The story is much the same in communities along Arizona's long border with Mexico. Crime rates there are stable and, if anything, lower than in the rest of the state. According to a story in the Arizona Republic this month, the assistant police chief in Nogales, Roy Bermudez, "shakes his head and smiles when he hears politicians and pundits declaring that Mexican cartel violence is overrunning his Arizona border town. 'We have not, thank God, witnessed any spillover violence from Mexico,' Chief Bermudez says emphatically. 'You can look at the crime stats. I think Nogales, Arizona, is one of the safest places to live in all of America.'" As for the galvanizing slaying of the rancher Richard Krentz in March, the Arizona Republic went on to report that, "according to the Border Patrol, Krentz is the only American murdered by a suspected illegal immigrant in at least a decade within the agency's Tucson sector, the busiest smuggling route among the Border Patrol's nine coverage regions along the U.S.-Mexican border." Closer to home, the crackdown on illegal immigration in Prince William County in Northern Virginia was also justified by fears of crime. The Washington Examiner added to the misperceptions in an April 29 story when it reported that since the crackdown began in the fall of 2007, "the county has turned over more than 2,000 suspected illegal immigrants to the federal government, and crime last year reached a 15-year low." Of course, that doesn't mean the crackdown necessarily lead to the drop in crime. Nationwide, the crime rate has dropped by more than 30 percent in the past 15 years. Crime has dropped at a similar rate in more immigrant-friendly Fairfax County. Legal and illegal immigrants do commit crimes, but at rates that are generally lower than their native-born counterparts, according to U.S. Census Bureau data. The large majority of immigrants who enter the United States, legally and illegally, come here to work and save and support their families. Once inside the country, they want to stay out of trouble and not jeopardize their opportunity to earn income in a our relatively free and open economy. The frustration behind the Arizona law is understandable. The politicians in Washington refuse to reform our immigration laws in a way that would make legal immigration more available and attractive to low-skilled workers relative to illegal immigration. Absent real reforms, ramped up enforcement will only drive illegal workers deeper underground, raise smuggling fees, and divert law enforcement resources away from apprehending real criminals who truly do threaten public safely. • Daniel Griswold is director of the Center for Trade Policy Studies at the Cato Institute in Washington. He has written widely on trade and immigration policy and is the author of the 2009 Cato book, "Mad about Trade: Why Main Street American Should Embrace Globalization."
neither did I Doug. Im just saying. It can be viewed however some one decides to take it. But its the same pattern for just about every state. I dont care either way just something I noticed.
A woman here legally on a student visa is far different thing than a woman who illegally trespasses our borders just to give birth here and be anchored to the US by a technicality.
Back in the 1800's when the 14th Amendment guaranteed those born in the US citizenship, I'm pretty certain the authors didn't foresee the issue we face with ILLEGAL immigrants having children here. There are a host of reasons this amendment makes sense but granting citizenship to the children of those here illegally is not one of them. This is a tough one for me personally because I have friends that would not be citizens (at least by birth) but it's just not right by any reasonable measure.
On the other hand, when our fore fathers drafted the Constitution and said we have the right to bear arms, little did they know people would go insane and kill innocent people with AK47's! If that's justification to carry a gun, by all means go for it! If you can out shoot a maniac with a machine gun as you run for your life then I want you by my side! Seriously. Just as long as you're sure you won't get depressed also and become a nut case killer!
No, not like that.... Its a way of saying... look you either are going to to what it take to truly be American and live here.... or GTFO..... I mean this is all coming off as this law is racist and it targetting latinos Blah Blah...... Well how racist would it seem if we litterally had a door knocking fest were if you didnt have documentation, or a right to be here we just did a full round up.........
AK47's are not legal. Personally, I'd rather have a bad guy wondering if I'm packing rather than knowing I'm not.
I think it was Thomas Jefferson that said the main reason for the Second Amendment (right to bear arms), was to protect the people from the GOVERNMENT. Jeff
Very very tough subject here, with alot of reasoning and alot of loopholes involved with alot of it..... As Americans, we have alot fo service men and women that live overseas, that have familes, bear children while overseas, and at that point the children are considered citizens because Mom and Dad are citizens, Unfortunatly like you pointed out, not all countries think like that. There are countries out there that even if mom and dad are citizens, if the kid is born somewhere else, they are not guaranteed citizenship.......... I think you are in agreement that the 14th was not intended to give citizenship to the Baby which was born twenty minutes after mom jumped out of the river she just swam up to cross the border.... or whatever.... Thats what is being used alot now, Prego mom comes across, has the baby... the baby is a citizen, so mom gets to stay as well.... Obviously that was not how that was meant to be used. I truly belive that situations such as this are truly a case by case happening. The example that was given of mom being here on a student Visa, get prego has baby..... Ok thats a situation that would have to be evaluated from all sides, what country is mom from, what is that countries stance on it, does Mom now want to go through the process of becoming a legal citizen and stay? This happening truly has to be case by case, as mentioned already there is just too many damn variables for everyones different situations, including were they are from.
Sorry but that's not anything like what most reasonable people would want. I like knowing that if I'm walking down the street, obeying the law and a cop asks for my ID, I can tell him to eat a dick. Funny thing is, even an illegal alien has this same right and I'm ok with that. There are certain things that shouldn't be messed with and that's one of them. In the case of the AZ law, nobody is legally getting hassled unless they're breaking the law. A government should have a healthy fear of it's citizens.
Quite frankly.... yes its true, its the law so I respect it, as with most law like this there are those that take advantage..... See my thoughts above this already..... Really hard to take any particular stance on it...... Def something that needs a revisit and amended...
Yeah I know its not what anyone would want..... If it seriously was what Americans would want, I would probably be looking to see what language I would need to learn to be moving out myself.... BUT.... If your walking down the street, and an officer of the law does ask for your id.... you are required to show it. Thats why your required to have ID at all times. What if a criminal who has warrants for murder is walking down the street, but at that time he isnt breaking the law, and isnt recognized, but as a regular check is asked for ID.... He is caught. Personally I really have no issue whatsoever showing my ID if and when I am asked for it. You do catch the AZ law right were most are missing it though, its not a law to go out and hunt for IM's.... Its just asking for proof when you have alrady been stopped for breaking some type of law... be it driving, or even walking..IE Jaywalking...... Im glad someone sees that part of it. Here is a fun AZ law, how about the hundred dollar ticket I got when I was in college for having less than five dollars on my person when in scottsdale??? That was fun one..... Vagrants law or something like that..... what a crock of shit that one was....... I hate carrying cash, specially when I have my atm abd credits handy..... But law is law, and I was litterally asked to show five dollars.... My repsonce to that might have had something to do with actually getting the ticket though.... it was along the lines of WTF you asking be to bribe you???? Effin pig........ Not the best choice of words for a cali citizen, living in AZ for school at teh age of 18!!!
