What makes one a better climber?

That is a great answer!!:lol:

 

Persauding all the other riders to start smoking and drinking too.

 

I must have fallen victim to this already....... Except the drinking part that is........

Pack a day, keeps the doctors away!!!:lol::bang:

 

I have an Epiphany..... pix to come when all done........

 

For me it's as much mental as it is anything else. I am NOT a billy goat but I do like to climb and when I have a decent base of fitness if I can get the mental power to push through the pain I'm good. For me there is a moment in every hard climb where I start to think "I can walk this" usualy followed by the burning of the lungs and the quads...once I deny myself that 'out', things clear up. A sense of purpose to beat mysef and overcome my momentary weakness begins to take shape in my head and I usually can power through it.

+1 for all of the other suggestion too.

 

So I should be at 8 feet 7 inches or taller:lol:

 

Definitely, a strong set of legs and lungs are required, but you also need a strong frame of mind. A major part of climbing is mental. You have to believe...

 

Go on, have a beer. It´s only a beer. Do you good. It´s a vegetable product and counts for one of your fruit/veg portions per day. etc etc etc.

Persuaded yet?

 

a big ol ..... in the shorts

 

Going up!

Dismount and carry bike

 

Drugs, lots and lots of drugs. The right ones may even help you lose weight which is a plus plus right?!:?:

Haha, I'd like to see these calculations applied to 1x1clyde.

 

Legs and cardio are both good, climbing a lot will help you improve too. But you can only go so far with what you've got. For that edge on game day, you have to be willing to suffer, or at least suffer more than the other guys. Two riders being physically equal, first place goes to the one who could take more punishment.

 

Last summer I thought it was cardio. I did a lot of climbing (some rides were shortened rides that were just the big hills twice). I live by Peters in OC and cleared all the hills and big red going the reverse direction (i.e., up the back side of big red) a couple of times a ride three to four times a week. I got good and fast on those short, but steep climbs.

During that time I joined a firm sponsered city basketball team. I couldn't believe it. Three or four trips up and down the court left me breathless and wheezing in the first game. Like I was totally out of shape and needed a couple weeks of suicides for some conditioning. Made me believe that maybe for the short steep climbs, it is more power (legs) than it is cardio, and the longer climbs balance more towards the cardio.

That said, my Peter's conditioning routine has done good things for the longer climbs as well...

Just my 2 pence.

 

shuttling is the fastest way to climb

 

Climb Black Star 3-4 times per week and ride a light 29er hardtail.:drunk:Oh, and drink beer.

 

light 29er hardtail i sort of agree...i sure as heck aint no badazz rider but i sure as heck can say that riding my "light" 29er today made a NOTICEABLE difference, thats for sure

 

Some food for thought regarding weight:

Scott Saifer has some other interesting articles regarding weight for elite level road cyclists. Pretty much at the elite level you're really tied to your body and muscle composition. Sprinters can diet down to better climbers but won't be true climbers with the gifts of slow twitch muscles, aerobic fitness, and of course low body weight. Vice versa for the climbers to sprinters mode too. Of course he explains there's a lower limit to weight loss for everyone where you start affecting overall health. Paraphased from Road Magazine, August 2008.

From cyclingnews fitness Q&A.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=2006/letters07-17

Optimal race weight #1

I am a 5'10" 160lb Cat 3 / Expert Mtb racer. In these two articles (www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=2006/letters07-03, www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=2006/letters07-10) you address race weight for specific examples, but I'm interested in understanding optimal race weights across various rider heights. My strengths are long and hard road and mountain bike races. I enjoy breakaways, time trials, and short power climbs. I'm not a pure climber but can usually be found dangling with the leaders on the big finesse grinders. I can mix it up in the sprints but usually don't win a whole lot of them. In general, regardless of crit, road race, or mountain bike race, I can be found in the top 1/4 percentile of my categories, rarely on the podium. I am wondering if I need to be more diligent about my diet and shedding more weight, or if I need to continue to put more emphasis on training. Or both.
Ryan Bennet
San Francisco
Ric Stern replies:

There's no real ideal mass for various heights of riders. People tend to fall into a range that is normal, irrespective of fitness (e.g., i know sedentary people who weigh less than me, and others who are heavier. Also, i know elite athletes who weight less and more than me, all the same height as me).
There's absolutely no point suggesting that to be successful at bike racing that there's some formula for ideal mass, based on height. We know from your description that you are either heavier than other riders and produce similar power or you are lighter and produce much less power than them.
If you want to ascertain your ideal weight, or more specifically, what weight it may be possible to get down to, then you need to find a qualified person (e.g. sports scientist) who can estimate your body composition. The three ideal ways to do this are DEXA scans (expensive), hydrostatic weighing, or skinfold assessment (if the person testing you uses plastic calipers the results will be useless). The most cost effective way to be tested is skinfold measurements. From the measurements and by using equations the person testing you can estimate (there's only one way to actually ascertain your body fat, and it ain't too useful for athletes and most people) your body fat percentage. From that they can then suggest an ideal weight range based on your physical characteristics (e.g., whether you're muscley person or not). It may be that you don't have any (or much weight too lose).
For the majority of cyclists, a bigger performance effect will occur with a change in training and increased power (unless you happen to be significantly overweight).
​

Ryan responded:
Thank you for the explanation, this is useful. Your response begs the question: what would an optimal body fat percentage be for a guy like me in my racing categories? It is not very easy for me at my weight right now to lose incremental pounds, but I do know that I have some added 'fluff' that could go away with a very concerted effort. Is it better for me to focus on shedding fat or building power? I get the sense it's the latter.
Ric Stern replies:

The optimal body fat % would be the one that allows you to perform well, without holding you back. In general most racing cyclists are likely going to be between 8 and 15% body fat (for males, females would be significantly different to this). Under 8% and you're going to be very lean -- a few athletes will be in this range.
By and large, for most racers it's going to be about building power over the duration that you race at (etc). It's generally easier (in the sense that you don't have to deprive yourself), potentially easier to gain power, and most importantly it will have more affect on your performance than losing a kilo or two. As a side effect of better training you may find yourself losing a little fat mass.
​

Scott Saifer replies:

I agree with Ric that there is a pretty wide range of weights at which any given rider can race bikes successfully. I have accumulated the heights and weights of a large number of riders who win stuff at the world elite level, and the range of weights for each height is about 20 pounds (9 kg). Of course the guys at the high end of the range don't win a lot of hilly races, and the guys at the low end the range don't sprint well. At 5'10" and 160 pounds, you are as heavy as the heaviest pros your height winning European classics, National Championships and similar top-level events. You are much heavier than the guys who are winning hilly road races and MTB races. They come it at 140-150 pounds roughly.
If you are looking to "improve" your climbing, Ric is right that you will see faster gains from improving your training than from losing weight, assuming your training has room for improvement. If you want to optimize your body for climbing you will need to optimize both body weight and training. Since you are already hanging with the leaders on climbs despite being quite a bit heavier than many of them, I'll guess that your training and aerobic power are already pretty good, though there is almost always room for improvement.
Before you try to adjust your weight, consider your goals though. If you just want to win whatever you can, Ric is right that you should find out your approximate body fat percentage and then what you would weight if you kept essential fat (5-8% for men) and lost any excess. Use that lean weight as you target. If you are set on winning hillier races though, you will have to get your weight into the range where guys who win those sorts of races reside, which may mean losing excess muscle if you would be overweight even when lean, or gaining muscle if you would be underweight when lean. Losing muscle is challenging and takes longer than losing fat if you want to do it in way that maintains performance, but it can be done. The problem is that you have to be close to starving to lose muscle mass rapidly, unless the muscle is immobilized, and neither immobilization nor starvation is good for your training. Losing ten pounds of muscle without sacrificing training is the sort of thing you attempt to do for next season, not within a season.
Ric should have distinguished between two types of plastic callipers. Some are large, heavy, stiff and work just fine. Others are small, light, flimsy, don't create a reproducible measurement and are much less useful.
​

Optimal race weight #2

I'm 29 and an intermediate cyclist who might like to race at some point in the future. I've seen several posts on "target" weights for different size people, but none are really close to my size. Is there a general formula to estimate a target weight? Do these include bone structure/chest size etc? I know I have some weight to lose but am unsure how much to aim for.
I'm currently 6'3.5" and around 198 lbs. Inseam as measured without shoes for bike fit is 36.5". Chest size is around 41".
Brian Bradford
Scott Saifer replies:

Rider weight vs height
The graph linked from the thumbnail on the right shows the heights and weights of successful professional riders, both men and women. Each Men point represents a rider who either won a classic, grand tour or world championship. The women and Saturn men rode for a domestic or international professional team. As you can see, the great majority of riders are within about ten pounds one way or the other of the average weight for their height, and none are more than 20 pounds either way from the average. The range for riders your height is roughly 170-190 pounds. That doesn't mean that you have to be in this range to enjoy racing bikes, unless you equate enjoyment and winning at the elite world level. If you are willing to be satisfied with keeping up or competing in flatter races, your current weight is fine. I've had a client 6'2" and 235 pounds win a reasonably well attended category 1 and 2 criterium, though he couldn't go uphill with the fours to save his life or ego.
​

Good luck.

 

Hmmmm, according to that chart, I'm about an inch too tall for a woman

 

Ah just lose a couple vertebrae. You'll save some weight too.

 

I can conclude that the best way to go is to sit on my arse eat nothing and do nothing, that way I loose both fat and muscle mass, giving me the lightest possible climbing weight..........right?