What Happened to Goat/Waterfall!!!

I went down Goat/Waterfall at the Oaks today and was totally suprised! The whole lower trail looks rerouted. It's now a wide switchback trail with a fork at the top for horses. When did this happen? The old lower goat is still there with no signs prohibiting riding but it's getting overgrown with Mustard grass. Anyone know if that will be fenced off like the top was?
Hope not! [-o-]

 

This is from my post from last Sunday's Path Ride;

http://www.socaltrailriders.org/forum/trail-talk/32288-sunday-path-ride-short-but-sweet.html

"After getting over to Oaks, we decided to climb up Grasshopper, instead of the first two "B"s, then on up the third "B".
At the top play area I spotted Ranger Maureen, so I decided to go talk with her, and get the word on the new "trail" cut going down Goat.
Well, according to her, it's a privately funded trail, cut for the equestrians, so they have an easier route up top, on that side of the hill. She mentioned that us MTB'ers needed to be especially careful when going down it now since it crosses the "old trail" more than once towards the bottom, and it will be easy for us to "run over" the equestrians if we are not careful.

I'll try not to turn this RR into a rant, but what they did, and how they did it, is just plain STUPID!

We rode on down the ridge line to Goat, and had a great time doing it. We decided to ride Goat, and see what changes had been made, and by the looks of the bobcat still up top, are going to continue being made.
The top section is still the same. It looks like the new route goes quite aways around the first drop into the trail. Then things change. You go from being on the old singletrack, to being on the new "trail" (it's at least 8' wide) on down to where the old trail, and the new trail criss cross in three different places! She had said that we are still welcomed to ride the old trail, by the way, when I say old trail, I'm talking about the NEW REROUTE trail they cut after the fires, anyways, they failed to remove the mounds of dirt entering and exiting the criss crosses. It sounds confusing huh. The waterfall section is still there, and still fun, but be careful at the very bottom because of the mound of dirt caused by the bobcat, cutting the new horsey trail.

I'm not exactly sure how a "trail" can get privately funded, and built, in a County Park, that freak'n fast.
I thought there had to be studies done, for a new trail to open, and old one had to be restored, and on and on and on.

I'm fairly sure I'm done busting my A$$ doing trail work there, when they are going to get away with stuff like this."

So, as far as I know, the Waterfall section will remain open. But as you can see, they are going to do what they want, when they want to do it.

NOT GOOD!

 

they effed it up and money talks.

 

This is very bad

 

This is very bad.

 

A few months ago I was riding Oaks/Chutes and was stopped at the end of Barham Ridge by the Ranger (maybe Maureen...I don't know the Rangers there). She was talking with a group of people, one of them being a contractor who creates trails. They said they were considering modifying the trail (Goat) so that hikers had an easier way to decend back into Santiago Oaks. They asked me a lot of questions and I said that many MTBer really enjoyed the technical nature of this trail and wish it was put back to the older, more technical version. I told them it would be a good idea if they could have two routes (like on Chutes) for easier access by hikers/equestrians, but leaving the technical stuff for the MTBers.

It does seem strange that they can modify a trail so quickly when any others changes in the park take forever.

 

so does this mean we can put together a pot on STR, and private fund our own FR trail that road gaps over the new horse trail repeatedly? just curious...

that's sad though. goat was fun. I don't see why they couldn't have moved it a few hundred feet further over on the hill and made it a seperate trail.

 

Just guessing here, but they probably have to get the usual round of biological, geological, hydraulic studies done to make a new trail. There may have been less paper work to "modify" an existing trail.

 

It's my understanding that those are to be done BEFORE building or adding to, ANY type of trail.

 

In another thread I read that trails on County property by El Moro were being closed in the name of "habitat restoration." Apparently a narrow ribbon of singletrack is "destructive," but it's nothing you can't fix with a Bobcat.

 

Thanks Maxwell for the info. I ran into two separate groups of people hiking up since trail is more accessible now. Ranger Maureen was correct in saying it would be easier to "run over the equestrians" or hikers for that matter. It was good to get off the new trail and back on to the old waterfall section. At LEAST that will stay open.

BTW, A lot of horse turd now on the new lower Goat.

 

I got a call a few weeks back from Jim Meyer at Trails For All and he asked if I would come look at a trail they were working on over at Santiago Oaks and give them my opinion on some of it.....I was shocked to say the least...I didn't know anything about a trail being made, re-routed.

When I arrived I saw the bobcat up working on a double wide trail winding up the hillside....pretty much already completed. I hiked up what I have to say is a pretty cool route that mnt bikers as well as equestrians and hikers can all use to get up or down from the ridge.

I asked why this was made and the trail buiders and Jim from Trails for All said it was made to create a loop within the park that mnt bikers, hikers and equestrians can all use....that it is I have to say. But they did tell me that the "old route" was still going to be there for those wishing to do the more technical riding.

And yes it is privately funded....not going to mention who it is...it may come out in the future...but just so you all know it is from an AVID MNT. Biker in the park and trail runner (NOT ME OBVIOUSLY)....

Knowing who the groups are involved in making the trail I can only assume all the correct measures were taken before the trail ever began construction.

I have to admit that I think it funny that if this would have been a privately funded FREE RIDE trail or MNT bike only trail I don't think anyone would complain....it's a MULTI USE PARK and we have to remember that...We all fought hard to get our trails re-opened last year and for the most part it looks like all have been re-opened including one that was never going to be allowed (but none of the mnt bikers complained when someone built back the old bobcat trail)

Try and keep an open mind and enjoy the trails!

 

I have to admit: if the historical trail didn't exist, this new trail is what I would want to see built, though with shovels, and about 1/3 as wide. And it'll be nice to be able to redirect lost newbies down something a little less intimidating.

The new trail is a good climb, and there are some nice berms that look like they'll be fun to carve. Though the center of the trail is already getting silty from horseshoes. Is there a way to armor it?

That being said, the county's going to have a hard time now defending it's decisions based on habitat requirements.

 

Good or bad, I am still baffled by the process:

How does someone privately fund a trail in a county park?

How does an individual or specific user group get a trail, apparently of their own design, built in a county park?

How does anything like this happen in a county park without any public notice or input period?

Were there any studies done regarding long-term trail sustainability or other environmental impacts?

After all the uproar last year over trail modifications at Oaks, I'm amazed that something like this could happen without anyone knowing until after the fact. It sounds like this is a good new trail in many ways and I'm optimistic about the outcome, but I'm concerned about the precedent that the process seems to create.

 

Dang Waldo, you expressed my sentiments better than I did myself, except: what precedent are you concerned with? If we follow the precedent, here's how it works:

Step 1: Secretly raise money.

Step 2: Secretly give said money to somebody involved with the park. (who should we send this to? Maybe the County Board of Supervisors' re-election fund?):?:

Step 3: Roll in by cover of night with a bunch of wooden stunts and a few McLeods. And a backhoe for the big booter.

Step 4: Enjoy.

See, easy. No problem with the process at all...

 

Just curious (regarding the trail in Laguna Coast Wilderness Park), how many narrow ribbons of trail would there have to be before you would consider it destructive to the habitat?

One other question, do you know how many narrow ribbons of illegal trails there are in that park?

Oh yea, one more question (I promise) do you think the ranger in that park should stand by and allow people to build all the trails they want, anywhere they want?

 

Don't know. But that's not my point. I do know that a 4 foot wide superhighway of a trail is destructive. This trail demonstrates that the county really isn't all that interested in habitat, if the price is right.

Many.

No.

 

I may be just assuming this but:

I have a feeling that the County is the one that wanted to re-route the trail...according to the meetings we had when we got the trails reopened...they were very concerned with the safety for equestrians on the sections that had the technical rock areas.

I think and hope that the private funding only helped get the project done today rather then in the future.

 

I rode the trail a few times and it has a nice flow to it! I suggest riding up it and checking out the intended line. The berms are really fun and some have transitions from an inside to outside berm. Give it a chance!

It won't take long to become a nice singletrack if used as such.

Here is a photo of a machine built trail that is now a nice flowing singletrack. This was built four years ago and has required only brush work. There is no erosion at all!

 

I ride Oaks a couple times a week and love Goat, but I actually think the "new trail" is kind of fun. It gives you the option to climb it, which was never possible before, and see a lot of new land. I have also found that it is fun to climb up from that side, rather than doing the 3B's and still come down hitting the old tech spots.

The trail is a lot longer now because of the switchbacks at the top- I definitely see that as a positive and if they did cut parts out of the old trail they wern't really that cool anyway.

P.S. - The trail builder is the award winning Roger Bell of Bellfree Contractors- he and his crew have done some really outstanding trailwork at my office a couple miles down the road.

http://www.trailbuilders.org/bellfree.html


Give it a chance!
Gray