It seems like more and more tapered head tubes are showing up on new frames. So I'm guessing that the advantages of a tapered head tube are strength and a lower stack height. Why not just keep the head tube at 1.5? Is it due to lower weight and a limited availability of 1.5 stems that we're now seeing tapers? And is running a 1 1/8 steerer with a reducer in a tapered head tube a bad idea? Thinking out loud here...
tapered has higher stiffness/strength/weld area than a typical 1 1/8" HT. also weighs a tad less than most 1.5 HTs. I think one of the bigger reasons is compatability. like you said, there's not a lot of 1.5" stems, and not everyone needs the absolute stength of a 1.5" setup (or could appreciate it for their given riding style). stack height is a moot point IMO. you can design a 1 1/8" frame to be just as low as a 1.5" frame. you just can't necessarily have a straight downtube. you could leave the headtube at 1.5 and probably make it a comparable weight/stiffness to a 1 1/8" HT, but you'd be using thinner tubing, increasing chances of dents, ovalization, etc. not everyone needs a 1.5" fork setup though. your average XC racer has next to no use for it, and even some of your more aggressive AM guys dont. there's no problem running a reducer set in the lower headset cup either. you still gain the stiffness/strength of additional weld area on the heat tube, but without much weight increase. if it was a bad idea, people would be making quite a fuss about their giant glorys and trek sessions (both tapered headtubes with 1 1/8" steerers)
I think it's a cool concept that makes a lot of sense. At the same time, like most new 'standards' in the bike industry, it adds complexity to choosing parts and shop tools. As for the 1-1/8 lower reducer, I think that's cool too because you get a stronger frame due to the larger lower headset bore. No you won't get the larger lower headset cup and bearings...until you upgrade when your budget allows.
IMO taper headsets are just another ploy to get consumers to spend cash. I havent seen any head tube failures on 1 1/8 steerers, has anyone? Does one really require the "extra strength" a taper headset will give vs 1 1/8 and the weight savings vs a 1.5? I probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference and doubt others really can. But we can both read them on paper.
yes and no. sure, they can make a strong 1 1/8" head tube, but it's also going to be prohibitively heavy. you can make a light 1.5", but it's going to be prohibitively fragile and sensitive to proper maintenance. tapered is more a compromise for those people who actually do need additional strength in their headtube, but still want to have a lighter bike. they need the strength for any number of reasons, such as being a clyde, or being a rough rider, or both. they may desire the lightness for help climbing, or for increased flickability. one place I see them actually being pretty nice would be something like a slopestyle-type bike. needs to be strong enough to go big, but light enough to easily do tricks and throw down mad steez. whether any of that matters to anyone is up to them though. if they can't realise the benefits, then it really is just a marketing ploy and yes, I have seen the headtube on a decent frame fail before.
1.5 steerers will be a thing of the past very soon. Bikes will be coming with 1.5 HT for the added weld strength, or they will be coming with teh E2 headtube for the same reason. Road bikes that are coming with a 1.5 lower are noticable stiffer, because the fork legs are actually straighter compared to the wheel. You dont have this with Mtn bikes, the only reason they did it for roadies...... is because with the 1.5 lower, it looks proper for the fork to sit that way. The part about the stems is exactly why you se tapered headtubes/steerers. Bottom line is, todays 1 1/8 steerers are just as stiff as the original 1.5 steerers, and they are more readily available.
adding another standard = ghey. I love my 1.5 setup.... definitely stiffer than some 1.125 setups.... So if you want to run a tapered head tube on a straight 1.5 frame, you need 2 headsets, or a reducer and 2 headsets. GHEY
So would the headset setup look the same on this bike for example whether you were running 1.5 or 1.125? The only difference would be the internal reducer, right?
Sort of. The top setup will look the same but a straight 1.125 steerer fork will not have as large of a base at the top of the crown so visually it does not "flow" as nicely from headtube to fork. Other points in response to other random posts in this thread: Yes, there are failures in the headtube/toptube/downtube area that can be reduced using a tapered HT. The larger surface area allows for a larger diameter DT larger weld area which spreads the forces out. Having a larger, stiffer HT area helps to create a frame with less front end twist and flex which makes a bike that tracks better feels more solid and predictable. If you are a heavy and/or aggresive rider you will notice the difference, so it's not a "marketing ploy". (making it seem like the average rider "needs" big travel AM/FR "trail bikes" is though...) 1 1/8" stems are great for the applications these tapered steerer bikes are designed for, lighter and much more available than 1.5" stems. I would not want one on a rigid bike.
Yes, and is great for a "big hit" DH bike but: Tapered gives most of the benefit of 1.5 while keeping weight down and without having to rely on stem manufacturers to produce an new, huge line of 1.5 stems to work with these more XC/Trail-AM oriented bikes. Do you know of any 1.5 stems in say a 120mm/10 deg?
i hear you on the limited stem choices.... (cannondale made 100-130mm stems for their 1.5 headhsok forks) If there is a demand, there will be products. Introducing a new standard is hardly the way to go.
I think road bikes also started going to a 1.5 lower since that is where a majority of the stress on the bearings occurs. The larger bearing allows the stress to be distributed over a larger area, which theoretically should increase bearing life. Though I have never had a King headset fail on any bike.......
1.5 stems for black bart 105mm http://cgi.ebay.com/Answer-Atac-Pro-1-5-in-x-31-8mm-x-105mm-Mtn-Bike-Stem_W0QQitemZ270389404275QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item3ef476e273&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1205|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50 100 http://cgi.ebay.com/Cannondale-100mm-1-5-Stem-31-8-31-8mm-OS-160g_W0QQitemZ230347745625QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item35a1cba959&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1205|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50 90 http://cgi.ebay.com/FSA-FR200-ALLOY-STEM-90-X-31-8-X-1-5-CYCLING_W0QQitemZ370213574014QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item563272d57e&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1205|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50
Yup, and thus the tapered HT was born! The demand for C'dales 1.5" product line should tell us something, right? It's not really a "new standard", it's one option which combines the best of 2 current standards. IMHO, moving everyone on XC/trail bikes to 1.5" stems is a bigger move than changing one headset cup and race. Headset manufacturers need only combine two halves of existing, current products while a stem maker like Thomson would have to produce 35 new stem designs (not counting color options) to provide the same range of choices as their 1 1/8" line.
I didn't say that 1.5" stems don't exist, I'm only giving some of the real world reasons a designer would use a tapered headtube. Like 29" wheels, it's one more herb on the spice rack, you don't have to use it in every dish.
Headsets for these bikes is not a problem, headsets for running a straight 1.125 fork isnt a problem either. Marshall found the resolve with ease. Going with a tapered style head tube and steerer is actually reducing the industry by an entire standard. IT eliminates the need for a 1.5 stem, therefore, eliminating another standard. The standard of a 1.5 stem. There is also a reason why the 1.5 steerer is going away, its because the technology in 1.125 steerers are making them just as stiff as any 1.5 steerer. Remember, compare apples to apples, compare an 07 66 with a 1.5 steerer to a 1.125 steerer... you wont feel the differences. Back in the day, when long travel SC forks were first coming out, they didnt have the reinforced steerers that you see today, so yeah, you had a noticable differnce then, comparing a z150 to a sherman breakout plus yeah there was a differnce. Compare an 07 Totem with a 1.5 to an 07 66 with a 1.125.... your not going to notice the stiffness difference.
It's called planned obsolescence. This is going to be one of those brief transitions. Anybody remember 1 1/8" threaded headsets / forks? Good luck finding one of those these days. It basically went from 1" threaded to 1 1/8" non-threaded with a little bump in the road. This is just a bump in the road until 1.5 becomes the new standard.
