You are spot-on IMO. While we are busy bickering with each other with petty name-calling, our adversaries are cooking up another lawsuit crafted to boot you and I off of another one of our favorite trails. This is just what they want, divide and conquer and they will point to threads like this and use it to twist the facts. This thread is full of ammunition for our foes with tales of trail damage and user conflicts with locations listed by name. If you think the greenies are not reading think again. Instead of arguing with each other we need to band together into a coalition of MTB'ers, 4x4's, motos, fisherman, hunters, and other users to fight the green scourge. This is an achievable goal, we outnumber them and can win if we stick together. Try to see things from my point of view for just a few minutes please, before it's too late.
Holy shit Chris, I can read this! hey mike, i no i wuz trying for readability. not everyone gets it... hahahahaha you no its all in fun!
as long as you peepl no mine is the coldest and the fullest..... by the way soors and soors lite and the like is NOT beer!
THATS IT! lets get the illegals to repair the trails.... i'll shuttle them to the top and they can walk down for the work. that day all you fkers stay off the trails. OK?
I find this thread interesting and informative as I am the one who issue the permits for the Shuttlers to use the front country of the Angeles. We have done it on the trial basis and one of my criteria is if we experience a jump in complaints from other trail users, then the permits would be cancelled. We have heard no more than the normal level of complaints since they have started as officially sanctioned. We thought it was a service to the bike community, realizing not all would or use this type of service. It is interesting to see the comments on the thread are across the board from cons to pros. Please keep sharing your thoughts and if you identify a problem, help me define an answer. Thanks.
Hey Yogi! It's Mister Ranger! Thanks for jumping in on this Sir. Maybe a sense of reality can come back into play. Obviously we have every spectrum of opinion here, but bottom line are a couple of things. We are Mountain Bikers, one and all. We may have significant differences of opinion amongst us, but we stand united on trail advocacy. It appears internally we have different positions, and that's okay. I for one (and this is solely my opinion) believe that DH Bikes belong in DH Parks. I'm a Cross Country/All Mountain type rider. Naturally, for me, I would think this way. There are those that feel that any trail is open for all types of riding. I think there are trails that are better suited than others. I will be the first to admit that McGill Trail is an ideal trail for DH rides. Paved to the top, huge parking lot at both ends. It makes sense, other than the fact that every other trail user tries to use it (to include horses) on the weekends, which leads to some pretty traumatic disillusioned experiences I have seen first hand. From my experience I find that DH Bikes have a tendency to destroy trails quickly. There are those that adamantly disagree and believe that I am bashing or disrespecting them due to my opinion. I'm really not. DH is an awesome sport, but on my local trails, it has been my experience that they do not want to stop or slow down for climbers, and hikers, and the trails that get chosen for Shuttle runs have deteriorated quickly. I understand their desire to have equal rights to the trail, and by all means, they should. As well, unfortunately there are those in all MTB demographics that choose to be indifferent, unconcerned, or even rude to other trail riders and hikers that make us all look bad... Is there an answer to all of this? I have my opinion. But I know it is not equally shared.
I have a DH bike, but I am "inclined" to agree - if I can ride up it, I shouldn't be riding a DH bike down it. DH bikes are for bike parks and purpose-built DH trails or, in SoCal, for "secret" locations. Shuttles are great for DH trails, but there should be some rules of the road and expected behaviors for participants (and maybe some equipment restrictions) if the trail has uphill bike traffic. my .02 Commence flaming...
The behavior matters far more than the equipment, tho the equipment might enhance/encourage some behavior. Point is, I totally agree. The uphill traffic could be me (or other mtbers), but it doesn't matter who it is...since we generally don't have one-way or even bike-only trails, except at places like Snow Summit, we need to ride like it. Does this affect me too? Sure - I am less inclined to choose certain trails (or certain ride times) because I can anticipate more traffic than I want to deal with. And that's fine. Problem is, I think we here on STR are much more savvy than the general riding public. So like it or not, the example we set is made much more important.
How long does it take the shuttle to get to the top? Perhaps a requirement for the permit might be that the shuttle driver give a little lesson in trail etiquette to the passengers on the way up. If they understand that if they choose not to yield to other trail users, there may no longer be a shuttle, that might go a long way toward eliminating trail user conflicts. I agree that behavior is a greater problem than the equipment (but it might also be nice if the shuttle company kicked in some money or time for trail maintenance).
