Seriously?????

Look at it this way DM, Do you like riding that trail? Do you want to keep riding it? You made some excellent points in keeping the trail open, which all riders, hikers, and equestrian riders should do.

However, I'm pretty sure it's not the trail in question here that's illegal. I think it's the stunts on this trail that makes it illegal. I've seen posts on here regarding the land owner has gone around tearing ladders and ramps down. By not drawing attention to this trail, people who really want to ride this kind of stuff will have a place to go. If we post about it, sooner or later, it'll get torn down.

 

Well, I do want to be clear, it is NOT illeagal.

Ok, I will admit seeing it now, the title could be seen as a trail that was not legal.

If I may also add, a PM explaining that part would have been nice, that is much clearer explanation than we dont talk about webb, even though its a legal trail.

 

I actually love riding this trail. The part that has been mentioned that is on private land.... I do not. I also dont agree with the wooden stunts/ladders ETC that have been built on somebodies land. I havent ridden that side since I found out its status.

 

I usually do PM those who post or threads I delete or close. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't. I ride as much if not more than most and I work graves (4 days, 50 hrs a week) so I sleep during the day. I will miss many post and unless it gets reported, threads can go un-moderated at times.

 

to be completely honest, with regard to this particular trail, there's a double standard. I'm not gonna lie, a lot of us refer to is as the super secret DH trail. it's not like we truly believe it's a super secret, it's more of a joke than anything. Sure, I won't blatantly give directions to it, but I will point at Bflo and say ask him. not like it's hard to figure out where it is anyway.

but still I don't think that dirty mike's thread was anything out there. you could have changed the title and it wouldn't have been any worse than countless other threads involving the same trail.

kinda like these:
http://www.socaltrailriders.org/forum/trail-talk/34870-ssdh-good-day-turned-bad.html
http://www.socaltrailriders.org/forum/trail-talk/34897-ssdh-may-2nd-2009-a.html
http://www.socaltrailriders.org/forum/adrenaline-factory/33677-rr-shuttle-day.html

etc etc etc.

with regard to the legality of the trails, this is my understanding. yes, parts are on private land. yes, the land owner/manager DOES NOT want any new stunts built on the property (i.e. ladders, etc). No, he does not mind that people ride the trails (as told to me by trusted people who have actually spoken with him), given that no new building is done.

Long story short, Gene, I think that the thread maybe should be restored with a different title. you can't delete dirty mike's thread and leave countless other ones with similar titles/themes/content floating around the interwebs, even if one guy is getting his knickers in a twist about it (and I have a feeling it's the same person that was bothering ride2live32).

that's all

 

Actually I was harassed by this member, [email protected], anyhow it just was stupid!! the more bikes swooshing by there, im sure it will get the neighbors/property owner little more worried than what they were about anyone getting hurt trying to performing the stunts there. Since you know some of those riders are young, they're worried that their parents take blame on them for having these ladders, etc.. So this is why we wish not to say where it is or etc.. I can understand why most of us want to keep it secret, mainly because of using someones property is a big fear for them getting sued or losing their property. Thats just my thoughts!

 

welcome to socal. basically, my job is to not blab it all over the internet. if someone really wants to find it, there are enough clues out there to allow them to find it with relative ease, and enough people riding it to tell them the rest.

 

agreed, i found it myself easily.. but then again i rode with nancy/roger and rest others the same day I ran into them.

 

I agree, but like I said, I can't read every thread out there and don't, so unless it gets reported to me and the other MODs that a posting rule has been broken, it will go un-moderated.

It wasn't the same guy, but if the trail is legal and I didn't see any wooden stunts in the video. I will restore the thread. Now, if anyone post any pics of the wooden stunts in question which is illegally built on someone's property and didn't their permission to build or ride there, I will delete the thread and give that person or persons an infraction. Fair enough?

The thread has been restored with new title: http://www.socaltrailriders.org/forum/trail-talk/36005-ssdh-video-may-25-2009-a.html

BTW, I checked those other threads for pics or video.

 

This is like de ja vu

This is in no way meant to flame up this fire but:

Down here in San Diego I had been riding a spot called Deer Canyon for years and years, been riding the area since 1992. The particular trails in question were the "tunnels" carved by migrants origionally. For years no one cared, they were not illegal to ride, nor i guess were they legal because no one really cared it was not an issue. About two years ago they became a "destination" if you will and everyone was riding them, at the same time a huge piece of land that had great trails on it was bulldozed literally, effectively decreasing the amount of multi use trails in the area. All of a sudden everyone cared. The hikers, horse people, bikers, etc. So now the "secret" tunnels were outed. In an effort to cement our piece of the pie some very dedicated people down here presented fair plans to the powers, went to meetings, pled our case, did trail maint., cleared garbage (left by the migrants) essentially outing the area and bringing it to the forefront to do the right thing, staying on the up and up and not to "poach". As a result of all that careful planning and effort the trails are now closed completely, fenced off, signs to keep out everywhere, patrolled, and bikers villainized as usual. This may be a simplified account of the events but it is how I saw it.

Moral of the story?

Until the bike advocacy groups stop playing nice and actually get some teeth we will continue to lose land to better funded more well represented groups period.

So while there is nothing wrong with naming lesser travelled legal trails, you would do yourself a favor to enjoy them quietly, keeping the pressure off the land managers, keeping traffic down as much as possible, because if you force them to make a desicion i can bet you it won't be in your favor...history has shown us that. Just my .02

 

Lesson learned...........as much as a smartass as I can be, I need to help keep Webb open. Lets put something together on a regular basis to help keep th locals happy. I will start a thread for ideas that can be done, and possibly start some planning. Hopefully maybe it will start something for all teh trails we love....Maybe STR clean up days, no riding, but hiking and picking up trash, ETC.




Gene....Thank you.

 

Okay, Here we go with a long Ish response.
Regaurding Webb Being legal or Illegal is as Follows.
When i first rode webb 2 or 3 years ago when it was the Original trail with the play area, some random guy showed up in his late 40's, and said he owned the place and blah blah. Immediately i got scared thinking it was illegal and i would get busted or something. Turns out, He doesnt mind us riding bikes there, he just hates when people get drunk or ride dirtbikes or do fireworks and stupid S@it up there, ;like the kid who went offroading in his jeep and rolled it down the hill and had to get airlifted out(but tahts another story.) he just requested we ride at our own risk and be careful. On the newer trails (left at the first split) I have talked to a close friend of the owner who resides in new jersey, as he was tearing down the old ladders that were built. He said they dont mind up riding the trails on their side of the property, they just dont want us building wood stunts. He didnt mind trail maintenance(berms, etc) but did say keep the jumps within reason (no 50ft stepdowns over a patch of tree's).
Anotehr thing to keep in mind, Claremont wilderness trail starts when you enter the gate and start hiking, if you cut left up the HAB singletrack, thats leads to the staging area which starts the private property, however if you go left, you go through johnsons pasture which is state protected land form what i've read.

So to be clear: the wood stunts are allowed on the original trail and play area, not the new trails (which eveeryone knows hence why they dont build anything new)

Regaurding the closing of the thread: It Happens.
THe Mods seem to do a decent job with moderating, I'll leave it at that. Theres so many members we may need to start thinking about adding a mod or two for some forums.
Just a Thought
-BFlo

and Dustin RE: the clean up day, ZGreat idea. been trying something like taht with friends but it hasnt worked yet. a trail maintenance day once in awhile wouldnt hurt either.

Oh, Just for the record, I'll talk to my grandparents who do real estate, and see if they can get a name and contact info for both the owners, and i will either personally call them, or write them a letter regaurding the trails and their point of view.

 

All your SSDH crap make's me laugh. I read post concerning Webb and all the old lady bickering that goes on and just move on. This time I had to say something since it's concerning a friend, Dirty.

I started riding Webb 4+ years ago, It was Marshall Canyon jump section or Webb. The people that showed me(riders from the local area, Azusa, Glendora, Ontario and La Vern) wanted to share what great riding there was to be had in my local area. There were people building there that didn't have intentions of keeping this place some secret oasis for a selected few they just wanted to build a trail with jumps and drops with some flow. Marshal although fun was a hike to top pick a line and hit some jumps and turn around and do it again. Webb offered a trail with speed that had lots of potential for being a trail you see in DH videos.

Two years ago or so, riders from other areas started to come and see what Webb had to offer and liked what they found and all of a sudden it was some special little place they can fold up and put in their back pocket. Why? Do you want to feel like you belong to some secret society? Maybe it was all the stories of people digging trails and catching people "poaching" and "Who are they to ride here, this is our trail".

My friend R. Gomez Jr(Gomez and The Golden Boy showed me Webb) takes our friend Kobayashi up to ride Webb a couple of weeks ago since he wanted to see what all the hoopla was all about and what happens? They run into a pack of 15+ riders, riding there that greet them with a "what are you doing here" attitude. WTF? This is what it has become?

There are a lot, a lot of riders that ride Webb that don't even post in any site or forums. A lot of them are local and don't care who is riding there or how they found out. I know for a fact are some of the first people that started moving dirt at Webb still ride there, Two just happened to come out and race the Fontana City National Maybe I should of pointed them out so some of you upper levels members of this SSDH club could thank them and have them apply through PM's and secret hand shakes and maybe, just maybe they can be members of your good ol boys club.

 

to be completely honest, TK, thank you to your friends, and all the locals for building a sweet spot.

also, though, I gotta say that even with the amount of people there, overcrowding is not a problem. I've NEVER had a problem with having an open trail, or anything, even on the super-packed days when there's 20-30 riders roaming around.

also, like I said, the SSDH crap is pretty much a big joke. most people that ask me, if I know them to an extent, I will happily tell how to get there, and probably hook them up with a guide to show them around.

but really, lets drop it before it gets out of hand.

thanks to gene for restoring the thread, thanks to Bflo for trying to check with the landowners, and thanks to Dirty mike for the idea to clean things up a little better.

I would also like to suggest that we go talk to the residents on the street where we park up top, and ask how we might be able to make them like us a bit better. of late, there's been a few complaints up there to myself and friends, and it's an easily solved problem IMO. just go door to door and ask what they think about the mountain bikers.

 

dude i got harassed for posting skyline, it fing skyline, we ride mountain bikes on trails that motorcycles and jeeps ride all day, and still someone had to point it out. Lots of people that think they own the world on here, and alot of people who do not respect other types of riding except there own.

its not the mods that are the problem here its the people that have nothing better to do then complain to the mods

 

good riding spots are like good surf spots, best kept on the DL.

 

You nailed on the the head with that one. Ricky
Send the chacklinging Pansy's back to where they came from.

Wining is not needed here. If anyone has a problem pm the person you have the problem with don’t bother the mods. Don’t be a wuss we all like to ride and most of the people on here are cool. Bullying the mods into deleting stuff is lame. Some people just need to get a life and stop trying to control other people’s lives.

This story reminds me of one of my neighbors who used to call the police so much they they wont even respond anymore. The police asked what is wrong ha ha They say I heard a loud noise and called 911. Well my motorcycle backfired lol If you would have asked maybe the police could be fighting crime not watching me tune motorcycles. lol
Its sad that people have nothing better to do.

The solution is to go to the source of your problem don't cry to the mods.:clap:

That being said I just want to say I love you all!! :bang::welcome: Go ride your bikes!!!

 

I believe a good rule of thumb to use is this: If a trail is not on an official map or is on private property where there is not clear, verifiable permission to enter it's probably in everyone's best interest to keep it off STR. At the very least, keep names and locations off.

I don't believe it's a question of trying to keep anything a secret from other riders. That's not what STR is about. It's simply a matter of not drawing attention to a potential problem.

Lastly, I continually hear and read comments such as "everyone knows about it", "everyone rides it", "it's talked about on other forums". True or not, it really does not matter. Every forum has their guidelines or lack thereof. On STR those guidelines are very clear. If the trail is not legit, please do not post about it. Also, we've been a little lax on moderating threads where rides are being set-up for illegal trails but the name is not overtly mentioned. " Laguna shuttle: ******** trail", etc. These really need to stop. Use pm's for this please.



Craig
STR Moderator

 

This website may nto be the best to post here. Its kind of like fantasy land at Disney land.

Don't get on the mods bad side... trust me on this one
Important points

1. Gene (genusmtbkr12) will at least tell you what you did wrong and why your post got axed
2. Craig (Calepic) will axe your stuff without a formal PM explaining why or valid reason.

Like cops Gene will sit with you buy you a coke give you a ciggarette explain things. Craig will break out the tazer and phone books.

So just be careful on what you post :?:. People are sensitive about things

Please don't delete

 

hey FYM, COD4 tonight or what?