New Specialized Venge

When I bought my Giant TCR 02 back in 01 there were no where near the offerings there are today in carbon fiber frames. I've been working with cf since 1979. I've worked with both pitch and PAN fibers, prepeg, mat, continuous roving. I watched the development of the different weaves and manufacturing processes for many years before the bike industry brought it on in a mass production process. I've watched the different processes with the different molding techniques and have been involved in these same types of processes. I've seen the testing preformed and watched a lot of successes and even more failures, I've seen astronomical numbers in tensile strength and flexural modulus. Most of the successes have to do with layup positions and evacuations of air bubbles. Resin selection is also paramount as in any thing there are various grades to choose from. Most manufacturers will not skimp on resin as it's only a small part of the overall price and could cause failure. UV protection additives is another thing that is very seldom discussed but is probably the number one reason of poorly made frames/parts. The major bike companies have invested 100's of 1000's of dollars in development but the reality is they're are not much further advanced then most of the other smaller manufacturers. The majors do have the wind tunnels and the engineers but what do you really gain from an aerodynamic bike that has a coefficient of friction measured in the thousands? Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of carbon fiber and I really believe it's an excellent choice for road frames and that is the only frame material I'll buy.

I paid 1500 for my bike that came with an Ultegra groupo which at that time was selling for 1500.00. I have over 54,000 miles on this frame and I've had zero problems. Yep, I'm sold.

 

Thought it was neat to read that McClaren hlped design/used technologies for the bike (with video).
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/03/23/this-is-what-it-looks-like-when-an-f1-team-makes-a-bicycle-w-vi/

 

whatever your riding whether it be chinese, italian, antartic, or american made... at least your riding and increasing my dividend for the money i invested in some of the bike and manufacturing technology companies. muahahahaha.

 

With all these chinese frame vs fancy carbon frames.........guess some of you guys never flipped those fancy(yes even italian brands) carbon bikes over and look at the made in china sticker?

BTW, You all know your fancy apples stuff are all made in china right?

 

Hahaha China carbon road frames are sooo good you chose American Ti!

 

True but my tallboy is carbon and made in china.......#-o

 

the lower end italion stuff is made in china,the 3 that i have are made in Italy.My SantaCruze is made in china and the lack of quality is quite visible.A bike shop in Santa Monica has a Santacruze clowne for a quarter of the price,wish i would have baught it instead of paying for the name.

 

You spend all that money designing a fancy frame and then you slap a stock stem on it? The stem looks out of place after you've redesigned every other piece of the bike. Especially when you've redesigned the top-cap, you need a stem to match. "...and this is our integrated top cap... oh that, yeah, that's the same stem we've been using for the last 10 years..." Plus it's glossy, which draws your eye to the stem, instead of the sexy satin frame/wheels. Probably not the effect you want... If you're going to use a stock stem at least paint it satin/flat so that it doesn't stand out...

The red accents drive me nuts. There isn't any rhyme or reason to their placement. The inside of the fork, seat & chain stays are the least sexy parts of a bike, why would you accent them by making them red? So they stand out when they get dirty? Red on the front of the seat post? That just looks goofy. Put the red on the back of the post, on the back of the head tube, on the back of the downtube...etc. That is where the speed is. That is where the air is whipping off the frame... And it's good branding. The guys behind you will see red and wish they were riding a specialized...

Pick up the lines of the top tube and apply them to the stem. Paint it satin. Move the red accents to where it makes sense. Less is more. Even just a single red pinstripe that follows the break-line in the top tube would be tight. Don't get me wrong, it's a sick bike but it deserves the same attention to the finishing details that went into the frame design and construction. A couple tweaks and it will set a new standard in slickness.

 

You'll get in a lot less trouble with the $4,000 frame though .........

 

One_Track_Mind is definitely a hater. I am sure if he took a ride on the Venge, he wouldn't want to get off it.

Agree with Chris_B such that straight Chinese frames can be as good as some of the frames that bigger bike companies make; however, I haven't seen a Chinese frame that is at least comparable to any of the top end frames out there.

One fact that should be noted is that these Chinese frames (at least the ones I am aware of) don't offer a warranty; I believe most main stream bike companies (if I am not mistaken) have a lifetime warranty on their frames for manufacturing defects. I also know that Cannondale allows you to upgrade your frame at any time to a newer frame (at a discounted price). Can you do this with Chinese frames? If something goes wrong with it, who are you going to talk to about getting it replaced? Some of you may respond by saying that since it only costs $600 dollars, I can just buy a new one if it breaks, and still save money. Reliable customer service is an essential component (in my opinion) to purchasing a very expensive product.

A good question to ask you folks is...When you buy a new computer, would you rather go with one that is made by a well respected manufacturer, or by some company like eMachines? Both computers have the same specifications, but just purely different manufacturers. They both may outsource their manufacturing to the same factory, but the computer companies hold different quality control standards, and probably have different design criteria.

Design criteria is a huge thing in engineering. The design criteria for a Chinese company could be to manufacture this bike such that it meets these standards at the lowest cost. Main stream bike companies not only focus on all the features that customers want in the frame, but more importantly the endurance of the product. If the product didn't have any reliability, they would be losing money left and right through their warranty program. In addition to reliability, I know some of you guys are damn speed racers on your road bikes...descending mountains at supersonic speeds. Do you have enough faith in your Chinese frame to descend a mountain at 50mph? Personally, my mind would be at ease if I was riding a non-Chinese frame.

Just for sake of clarity, when I speak of a Chinese company I mean companies that make those frames on eBay.

I can go on about this topic, but it is just a waste of time.

I honestly don't have anything against buying a Chinese frame, I was actually going to buy one. I found a stupid cheap deal at the LBS, so I opted this route.

PS. Stop hating on guys with expensive bikes. If a guy wants to spend lots of money on a bike, let him. If you pass someone on a stupid, expensive bike while you are on your smarter, cheap bike, then good for you. In retrospect it really doesn't mean anything, other than you were riding faster than ze. I do think having an expensive bike can be at times very encouraging for training.

 

I'm not a hater at all... I love specialized stuff. I swear by their helmets and shoes and lust after their bikes. My first mountain bike was a fully rigid, steel, stumpjumper circa 1992.
I was just giving my opinion on a new (prototype?) bike. The frame, wheelset and Sram components are wicked sexy but I stand behind my opinion that the red highlights could be refined and that using a standard/stock stem on that exotic beauty is goofy. If you've thought of every other detail, why punt on the stem? The headtube is super beefy and then you have this proportionately itsy-bitsy stem perched on top. It just looks "off" and in those photos it has a different finish than anything else on the bike... But I'm a bit of design geek and have an overly critical eye. It's my Scandinavian way to talk about the problems first, before handing out compliments. I don't mean to hurt anybodies feeling... I personally prefer it that way over the usual, "It's great but..." Don't tell me, "it's great but..." Just tell me how it can be better and then when it's great, tell me it's great.

 

I don't know about him, but I thought your assessment was pretty spot on...

 

I think the color scheme was just some kind of promotional thing to launch the bike.

Their site has the more typical red/black/white color ways.

This is probably Spesh's way of moving forward from the Tarmac. Its really nothing revolutionary considering there are several companies already producing aero frames.

More for the "latest and greatest" crowd.

Cervelo still blows em all away in pricing with the R5CA. 9 grand just for the frame and fork.8-[

It would be kinda cool to see a wind tunnel test of some of the aero frames out there. Using a dummy rider, same wheels and components...just to get some numbers.

 

bite tongue bite tongue bite...

Ok. As designing composite bicycles and components, and even occasionally building them, has been my career for twenty years in various capacities, seeing SBC do this... thisssss... no, this falls under the "don't say anything at all" side of the proverb.

I will say, that of all the controversial BS I've been able to ignore in all my years in this industry, this, definitely sways the floodgates. Just, consider what you're supporting with that money. It's not insignificant.

 

I for sure don't think will be faster riding that bike compared to my current one, well maybe a little bit due to the wheels but def not the frame. I'm not the top 5% rider that can actually appreciate aero stuff on a bike like that. Will I want to ride one ? hell yah!, buy one ? no way . Will the chinese frames perform just as good? maybe, pretty close ? no doubt. Peace of mind when riding one? NO .

I guess bottom line is there's no doubt if it can be as good as leading brands. But support and peace of mind is on the sketchy side. More like why we pay for insurance when we don't need it.. but pay anyway.. in case we do

oh, and dura-ace vs ultegra ? aside from weight there is no difference.. Alberto or schleck will be just as fast using ultegra's or Sram reds, or dura ace ... Well maybe .000001 faster with lighter grupo's.

 

The latest issue of Velonews just did an article on 4 aero frames - not only taking in aerodynamics, but stiffness into consideration as well. It was the Cervelo, Ridley, Felt, and Blue frames. To me the biggest takeaway was, not only the disparity in stiffness, but the wind/yaw angle testing they did between stock wheels and aero wheels. The Blue frame didn't change from wheel to wheel, but it made a huge difference with the the others, especially Cervelo. So, I do think if Specialized spent all this time and money changing out the down tube and seat tube on a Tarmac (tongue in cheek), they may haves spent some coin on development.

I do have to defend the Tarmac -- I had an '07 S-Works which I gladly swapped out for an '09 Cervelo R3 -- couldn't compare the two. A month ago I swapped the R3 for an S-Works SL3, and once again it isn't a fair fight. The Tarmac is so flippin' stiff. The front end is almost too stiff -- very harsh road feedback. Then again it could be that I had spent the winter on nothing but my sweet Stumpy FSR and wasn't used to road feel.

 

That isn't their "aero" frame though.

I have to admit, I held one a couple weeks ago, it is crazy light. We put it on the scale and it still had one of the BB bearings pressed in and the cage bolts, and it came out to 720 grams. It would easily hit the sub-700 gram mark without the bolts and the bearing.

 

Funny, my fancy carbon bike says "handmade in USA." It must be a typo.

 

Looks sweet. Well thought out bike.

 

not anymore.
http://www.bicycleretailer.com/news/newsDetail/2549.html