Need New Brakes

unsprung weight is a made up term by some pocket-protector geek to confuse people like me who are no good at math, trust me

and even if it is a fact, prove to me that it actually matters on the trail which is the only place that matters....didnt think so

 

It's not the physical weight that YOU have to lug up a hill. The weight is working against the suspension. That is the problem. It's not a stamina thing for the rider versus it making the suspension work less efficiently.

 

whatever...physics in general is a bunch of bull and meaningless...bunch of theory and stuff made up a long time ago, well before mountain bikes...only matters when you take a test to get a degree in physics so you can open a physics book bookstore when you graduate, which is the only time the information is useful

 

Honestly, at the speeds most of us ride at, it probably does not make a difference. But for downhill racing, it makes a huge difference at the higher speeds.

http://world.honda.com/news/2003/2030203.html

Honda spent a ton of money on this gearbox to REDUCE unsprung weight by putting all the weight from the cassette, derailleur system into the frame. Why? Because it makes a difference. This bike won championships. Why? Partly because Greg M. is an animal, and partly because a bunch of calculator equipped geeks understood physics and used it to their advantage, instead of making a bike that was aesthetically pleasing.

 

I don't think Fo is disagreeing with you guys; I think his point is that he likely wouldn't feel how the weight difference affects his bike. I don't think he's arguing the actualy physics.

I agree with him that most people (myself included) would never feel the difference in suspension performance by simply adding or removing 100 grams from the outer part of the suspension.

 

Lee, I am very dissapointed in you...you are a well respected guy around here and to agree with me at any level is generally a bad idea. Although on a serious note, that was my point (between all the BS)...on a XC rig during a race for which you will perhaps notice that weight, especially given the toll of many tough miles, perhaps a valid point...but on the type of bike such equipment would, or should go, and given the riding the average rider would do on such a rig, its a moot point "on the trail".

I am also very dissapointed in 92se-r...he is clearly far too mature to engage with me in frivolous dialoge...though I tried. I would hope that the moderators would ban him since it really hinders my ability to have fun on this website.

 

Your wheel weighs 38 pounds? :?:

 

actually, i believe my rear wheel weighs 40 lbs on my Intense, with the rest of the bike accounting for the other 1 lb

 

lol. nice.

 

so yeah...I know Fo isn't disagreeing with us. he may not notice the extra weight , but others might. plus, remember weight weenie mantra: every little bit counts. if you're just going with saints or something based on price (say, assume equal performance for simplicity). that extra 200g loss costs you what? $100 difference in total brakeset cost? 2g/$ is a pretty damn good price as far as weight weenies go. it's a personal decision of the rider.

I would rather spend a bit extra on the big stuff (brakes, wheels, etc), and bring down my weight by a few pounds across a few larger components, than start gram counting on a micro-level and save maybe a half pound.

plus, as tani and others pointed out, if a lot of that weight is in the caliper, than you WILL lower your unsprung weight, and improve suspension performance (whether you can feel it or not, it's there)

another thing to take into account on this tyoe of bike is flickability. say you wanna throw a fat tailwhip on the finishline jump of a race. as the bike moves, it will generally pivot around your body. so, you'll want less weight at the far ends (front and back). less moment of intertia=more flickable bike.

take 2 bikes of the same weight, but one has a light crankset and heavy brake calipers. the other: a heavy crankset and light brake calipers.

the one with the heavier cranks will be more flickable by shear physics than the other one, despite both bikes being the same weight. same weight, different ride characteristic. and it doesn't just go for tailwhips, but also in cornering, throwing the bike around, etc.

I hope that makes sense. if not, PM me and I'll try and explain better.

it all comes down to perceptibility. if you can't feel a difference, power to you. if you're racing at a high level, there's no reason not to ride a bike that will physically be more responsive. fractions of seconds matter

but really, lets stop derailling this thread, and go back to suggestions for lovely brakes for DH/FR use.