Is upgrading from a Fox RP23 to a DHX Air worth it?

Question for you all out there: I have a Fox RP23 (w/ boost valve) shock on my Firebird. Is it "worth it" to upgrade to a DHX Air shock? I guess what I'm asking is - what would be the advantage of the DHX Air vs. my current shock? Would I be able to notice a difference?

If it helps - my bike also has a Fox 36 Float fork.

Thanks,
David

 

To DHX air not likley, I havent heard a lot of people love them. Now going to a something like Cane Creek DB Air yes.

 

I think it depends on your riding style too......lotsa bigger hits= DHX.

 

the dhx air is one of the worst shocks on the market imo, the rp23 is better

 

Get the db air. Best air shock I've ever used.

 

Thumbs down for the DHX air here too. It blows through its mid to end travel really quickly, or is too stiff, offering a rough ride, depending on the pressure it is set at. There seems to be no happy medium, even with the bottom out cranked fully in and the compression set high.

 

I put a Rockshox Monarch on mine and like it a bunch. I also played with the air volume in the RP23 to help with small bump compliance and that helped a bit too.

However. Call Pivot before you do anything with the shock. Seems like they are being a bit fussy about people switching out shocks. Switching to a new shock could void warranty.

Good luck.

 

I have a Firebird as well. I started out with the RP23 and switched to a 2013 kashima DHXair (got it for free), it is better but I dont think it would be worth spending alot of money on. I think there are better shock options out there. If you can get it for a screamin deal, sell the RP23 , and its close to a wash, then go for it. The Firebird is hard to dial in.

Spend the $35 and get a set of RWC needle bearings... huge difference on the Bird! Best $35 I have spent in a long time!

 

Im getting rid of my RP23 BV Kashima for a CCDB coil. I simply love the feel of a coil over air!

DHX air is garbage! Tried them on 2 different frames, same crappy result!

 

I forgot about that issue.

 

Wow that is lame.

The CCDBA is a sweet shock, if you can get one that would be way better than the DHXA.

 

I have a set of in package RWC needle bearings that I intended to put on a Firebird and then decided to sell the bike before I got the chance. PM me if you are interested.

 

Monarch RC3. DHX does not have good reviews at all.

 

Also look at the Rockshox vivid air. Mine rocks.

 

im also using a vivid air and it feels like a coil, pretty awesome shock

 

I have run DHX Air on my Yeti 575s since 2008. It's fine, but I doubt it's any better than the RP23. I have an RP23 on there now (I sent my DHX in for service), but I have yet to run it through its paces. I think the primary difference is the RP23 gets hot on medium to long descents, if it's active, and the DHX does not get hot.

 

the dhx air is horrible.

I'm a big fan of the xfusion vector air. feels just like a coil without the weight penalty. a lot cheaper than the dbair too.

 

I also wouldn't consider the DHX Air 5.0 being an upgrade for a number of people and their bike setups. You have to go into the purchase knowing what you are getting, else you may be turned off when you find it doesn't work as you hoped.

I replaced the RP23 on my Yeti ASR7 with a DHX Air 5.0, which turned it from a very long legged XC/trail bike into more of a FR bike. The bike was much more versatile with the RP23, but since I have a high end XC/trail bike, I wanted to cut the "overlap" and make the big bike be a bit more specialized. Now it's my go to bike for working on my bombing, jumping, hucking, and "gapping" skills. Works much better for how I want to ride it.

The DHX Air 5.0 isn't as easy to set up as the RP23. You have a lot of tuning with the reservoir air chamber pressure and its volume (via bottom out knob). I might cynical, but I think most people are overwhelmed and are blaming the shock unjustly. I doubt people can estimate how to set everything up in a few tries and I doubt the frame maker's guide will work for people on the first go. I also doubt people will be successful at getting a tune they like by randomly changing pressure in the air spring or boost valve by over 15 psi at one time. A little patience, adding or taking away a little pressure at a time after some time riding on it, teaches you how the settings affect the suspension's performance. You can then tune according to specific tracks. Once you learn to tune to 2 different tracks, you pretty much begin to appreciate how nice it is to have extra adjustability over coil or a simpler air shock. Other shocks, like the Vivid Air, which has 2 stage rebound damping and compression damping, have damping principles that have been around much longer (speed sensitive damping - high/low speed compress damping) and are much easier to wrap your head around than the Boost Valve's position sensitive damping, where people may find the former easier to tune. The RockShox also is much friendlier to service, with clear user servicing guides. There's plenty of reasons to hate the DHX Air 5.0, but most of those reasons are personal issues. I wonder if I could find any other STR member that could explain the Boost Valves principles in depth and the advantages it offers.

I'm very happy with mine. The extra air volume and position sensitive damping works well with my bike's leverage ratio curve to make it really plush for the first 1/2 of the travel (from sag, ~42.5mm in, to about 100mm in), which then becomes increasingly more progressive. The first 4" gives great traction on smoother parts, lets me dig deeper and carve harder in corners since its BB gets really low, and, combined with the stiffness of the bike, really makes me want to do some really crazy shit such as attempting to take impossible turns, coming in excessively hot. With the progressiveness of the leverage ratio curve and my tuning, I've stuck some crazy flat landings from overshooting jumps, with only the slightest bounce and loss of control. I couldn't get that kind of performance with a RP23; it's just a compromise with the air pressure with that, as there's no other way for me to tune it. The leverage ratio curve on my bike just happened to work well with the shock, letting me find an amount of rebound damping that isn't too heavy for the first half of the stroke and isn't too light for the second half, with how much air pressure I have in the spring. The ProPedal option, which can be tuned with the Boost Valve, is also very handy--I can just leave it on when riding through XC sections, cutting down on the pedal induced bob a little, but leaving the suspension very active over small stuff.

The Firebird has a linear progressive curve. That makes it the perfect candidate for coil. I think with a coil on my bike, it would have been acceptable, but I might have had some trouble with finding a good compromise with rebound and would've been altering other settings to compromise, since my bike has more of a negative parabolic curve (very similar to the first gen Nomad). No clue why DHX Air 5.0s come on 2nd gen Nomads and I wouldn't be surprised if that triggered a lot of hate at the shock, as the leverage curve is more suited to a smaller volume shock like the RP23. The first gen Nomad or 2nd gen with Push link would be a great candidate for the DHX Air 5.0 though, though it would be more FRish, rather than trail/AMish. The Giant Reign X comes with a DHX Air 5.0 stock and as you can see, it's not as progressive as the Firebird, but might just feel very similar to the Firebird with coil as far as compression goes, as the high volume air shock is slightly progressive.





Summed up, it'll work, but you might have trouble finding a sweet spot in tuning. You're better off looking at coil with your particular bike. Hope the RP23 on your FB is the XV model. Sorry for huge wall of text and lack of grammar/spelling checks, but I also wanted to make it more clear that the DHX Air 5.0 isn't a flaming piece of crap that many think it is; more often than not, it's just the wrong shock for their bike or intended riding style.

Out of curiosity, what's the tune on your current rear shock? Compression/Velocity (L), Rebound (L), and Boost Valve (175 or less)?

 

Thanks Varaxis!

I appreciate the time you spent responding. I haven't considered a coil shock, maybe i'll look into it. The main reason I was looking at the DXH air is because it's an "upgrade" option that pivot offers w/ the firebirds. I don't know if what they offer is an OEM DHX air, or if it's tuned in some way for the bike. So.... I was curious if it's an option worth considering since i'd like to ride mammoth a few times a year, and maybe hit some harder trails in the near future. BTW - I was at mammoth last weekend, and although i didn't hit the double diamond trails, the bike w/ the RP23 rode great!

My shock tune is exactly as you've described - light tune on compression, velocity, and rebound, and boost valve is 175 psi.

 

Heres a thread for you on someone with a pivot firebird that tried a db air.
http://forums.mtbr.com/pivot-cycles/took-my-firebird-out-today-double-barrel-air-786938.html