Irresponsible Equestrian

Melodramatic party of one, your table is ready.
Well at least if there is another fire there will be nothing to destroy since the park has been ruined already.

 

At least the toll road people dind't decide to build a road through the park, imagine the loss of habitat that would have resulted.

 

No, no. The IRC would have "set aside" a "park" (mitigated) for it, and it would be OK (as long as no one wanted to be able to use the land AT ALL).

 

What the heck. I'll chime in.

Horse or bike, we riders need to stick together because those that don't ride want to get rid of both of us. United we stand, divided we fall.

Would it be possible to have one trail designated for horses only, or no bikes, so that people who are introducing their horses and/or themselves to trails could have a safer place to do it? Or maybe "horses only" during certain, lower use, times?

As far as doing something together, what about a variation on Ride and Tie, like...Trot and Pedal? Or a version of Horse vs. Man but make it Horse vs. Bike? I'd be happy to work on organizing it, with help .

 

Guess you all will take from this what you want to actually 'hear'
None of you have said that you would or do slow down or yield to avoid an injury as you are required to do by park regulations. Who is claiming entitlement? The yield policy, as the speed limit, no jumps, and park closing at dusk are all logical regulations to assure the safety of all. Noticed I haven't before mentioned the jumps or night rides? The greatest amount of infractions, accidents and illegal use of the trails are committed by bikers, no contest. All I am expecting, and reasonably so, is that you yield at speed...........Too much for all of you to even acknowledge? Then you are encouraging a movement toward the ban of all biker access within our park systems. There is a county and statewide growing problem right now and all on this forum have a chance to curtail it before it becomes a movement toward a bikes ban in Orange County Parks.
As far as my personal experiences:
I have never had a bad experience with a biker - they have almost all been polite, courteous and respectful to me as I am to them .... when they aren't, usually out of ignorance, I handle it. But there has been a recent increase of dangerous near misses reported by hikers, families on the trails, equestrians, and even dog owners. I am only listening to the MANY recent complaints by both hikers and equestrians complaining of the small percentage of irresponsible riders who are endangering lives. Literally. As I have stated before, it is a small rogue element. But they have the power to ruin it for everyone. It's your call. I ride responsibly, asking the same of all of you. Expect the same of everyone sharing the trails. Reasonable expectations....not entitlement.
I have only stated the facts that can not be argued with; the speed by the mountain bikers who also refuse to yield to right of way is dangerous.
I don't have an attitude, I am biker, hiker and equestrian friendly as it should be.

Just yield at speed - that's it - we can share the trails...just change that one behavior

 

I was going to be done with this, but...can you please point out a single example since you weighed into this conversation where any individual said that they were not willing to safely yield?

No one is arguing this point. We all know that it is proper etiquette to yield at a safe speed, or even to stop.

 

No one's going to listen to what you have to say with your attitude, by attacking everyone here and condemning us all. (get off your high horse :lol

Fortunately for you, what you are saying with regards to speed, courtesy and yielding is something already stressed on by this forum, proper trail etiquette is harped upon all the time. I'm guessing 99% of the members here follow that rule, teach that to new riders, and stress that to everyone they ride with. We don't want to ruin it for everyone either, and are well aware of the consequences. We can't reach everyone, and there will always be some bad apples. Do a search on this forum for trail etiquette and you'll see what I'm talking about. Your preaching to the choir so to speak.

 

Thanks again for coming here to explain your concerns. As I'm sure you understand, not all mountain bikers come on to these forums, and those are often the ones who aren't familiar with etiquette around hourse - most here actually are and do understand the need to be safe and courteous and to stop any time a horse approaches and communicate with the horse rider to understand the options (ride, wait, walk by, etc.) I'd like to think that this is common knowledge to most on this forum, which is why we're not talking about it in this thread. Those who don't participate on the forums may not get the message. This is unfortunate, but a reality. Not much can change that. "We" can not control or educate them.

However, those who are new to riding and/or this forum may benefit from this discussion as well as you addressing your concerns. Some of your earlier rants were a bit confrontational, which caused a number of people to go on the defense. A more educational or informative tone may be more helpful in explaining the plight of the horse rider.

 

What Sherry didn't mention is that the increase in strava users is also making it dangerous for people who are slower on some trails than others. Even mtn bikers are no longer yielding to slower mountain bikers on the trails because they need to make their strava PRs.... Meadows Trail in AW used to be a fun trail, but being blasted by some idiots repetitively on DH bikes who feel a need to make his/her PR without regard to other trail users, including other mtn bikers, doesn't help anybody.

EVERYBODY has to keep in mind that these are public trails, open to everyone to use. They're not for un-sanctioned "races" to satisfy the need to compete on a global level with other people on some competitive websites. /rant over

 

^Genny, I wish I could give you multiple thanks for that.

 

this video is hilarious...but effective. http://bouldermountainbike.org/content/trail-etiquette

 

I sometimes think to myself that I would like to live in the OC to take advantage of the cooler temps that exist there during summer. After reading all these posts on this subject I am thanking my lucky stars that I live on the edge of the wilderness and can be on dirt within a few minutes of rolling out my front door and not have to deal with the equesttrian/mtb/hiker controversy.

 

There is an existing problem of bikers not yielding at speed - I don't know who else to reach out to before something happens. I was just hoping to find some help here. The examples of those not safely yielding happen everyday in the park and it's growing hence the recent local concern from hikers and riders....you all have seen it and are aware of it even if it is not you personally....It is a growing problem and not just in Santiago Oaks. I tried to reach the collective you in this forum. If it was equestrians causing near accidents to this extent I would appeal to one of their forums.
And come on Geek, I never said it was all of you not yielding at speed, I always stressed that it was a small percentage. However, I would venture to guess that nearly every one of you exceeds the 10MPH speed limit. I never asked you to stop jumping, speeding or having fun out there. But when you stretch the regulations (the collective) you are responsible for keeping others safe. Should be obvious.

 

I dont mean to take this thread off course but did you see all of the barrier work they recently did on Medows?! Hats off to whoever created all of those gnarly things out of wooden posts to keep people from cutting the trail. I saw it yesterday and was grinning from ear to ear every time I passed one. I would like to say thank you to the person or persons that put in the time and effort. Anyhow... back to the other stuff you guys are talking about now.

 

From the sounds of it......the same thing will be coming to the Oaks on some of the trails were people are cutting straight lines through switchbacks.

 

what?

 

I think scottstafford meant that Suzie Kelley is the one trolling with the ranting posts....I actually knew it was her (or a personal friend) from her first ranting post where she was upset someone mentioned her name......folks please do not feed her ranting posts....she might end up becoming Mike Vanderman's protege......


Suzie you would gain more respect by just identifying yourself already....and please explain where one would go to "research" someone's "ride" record???? ; )

 

Im glad you were able to express your opinions and came on this forum. That is what the forums are all about. Im also glad you were at the meeting (although I don't know who you are). The more the equestrians and mountain bikers talk respectively the better the situation will get.

Both equestrian and mountain bikers both speed in the park and are dangerous to others. But on that note I would much rather get hit by a 200lb. mountain biker then a 1000+ lb. horse. So why don't we just let it be said that the equestrians will spread the word that they need to be careful when running up the hills and the bikers will be more careful on their descents as well.

Like you said there will always be Rogue users in the park but for the most part the users of the park get along pretty darn well when compared to other areas in the country.

There is another thread on this site that will let you see that the bikers care and actually want to know what to do on the trails with regards to horses.
Check it out: Thread: Hate to start this...passing equine from behind?


See you on the trails!

Thanks for the clarification.

 

It has to be a friend who knows Suzy well. Who on earth would care to look up someone's elite atheletic abilities? Who cares? Just because she's been riding out there for 100 years and she's an elite athelete, doesn't make it OK to go off trail. There are rules posted on signs to "stay on trail" at every entrance to the park.

The whole problem is the fact that we need to stay on the trails and be kind and courteous to each other.

 

I rode Santiago Oaks last sunday and was climbing new chutes and was almost ran over by a horse hauling ass behind me that the noob rider couldnt get to stop. Pretty sure the horse was goin over 10MPH. Please draft your plan to take care of my situation. Thank you

OH BTW: Can you pick up your horse shit? It smells and makes the whole park look crappy and Im sick of rolling through it and hikers are sick of stepping in it. Thanks!