I'm sure I'm gonna get bashed for this!

Didn't you all learn anything from South Park? The way to keep the "futurists" from coming back to the present and "taking our jobs and resources" is to make the "future" a better place, so they won't want to leave! It was working until Cartman decided that making the future brighter was gayer than the gay-orgy solution proposed to eliminate the future altogether. "I think we learned something today."

 

Uuhhh, no, pretty sure I've been here for more than today(#2) and if you look, "The Pub" is for non bike related subjects! If you had been on this site for any length of time, you would have really had a cow during the presidential election--not as much bike stuff as there was other junk!! Anyway, lets get to the bikes!:beer:

 

we all love and talk bikes. But on a message board you cant expect it to be about bikes 100% of the time. Thats just the way it is. I for one dont get offended by much. I still have to feed my kids in the morning. So bring on the controversy, that is how change happens. Spoken from a true cracker: crackers. Or what ever you go by. Why am I up so late? None of your GOD dang business. Wait, im secular.

 

You know...some of those things on your list are interesting, I'll give you that.

But a paltry 338 billion for EVERYTHING on your list? Let's compare:

Sorry, but that 338b figure pales in comparison to the money wasted in Iraq.

And then there's the things that are harder to put a price on:

...roughly 100,000 people killed so far on the low estimates, and as high as 500,000+ on the high estimates.

Calculate those insurance payouts, add it to the TRILLION dollars Iraq has cost so far, and then re-evaluate your original list.

 

Okay, okay, youre right, on that, but still it is 338 BILLION dollars in unnecessary spending!

 

It is. You're right.

But that's money that was ALWAYS being spent...even when times were "good." So they can't be blamed for any significant, drastic, sudden changes in economy.

The only significant variables we had over the last 8 years were:

1) Housing/banking greed

2) Iraq

3) Bush

I'm not sure how to go about changing the wasteful ways money has always been squandered about (as per your original list), but if anyone is going to TRY to fix things, it's gonna be our current guy.

www.recovery.gov

 

I know how to fix it. Give all the money to me..............MUhhhaha. Everybody on STR would have their dream bike, trails would be open to all with no bickering. Dino would be mayor of something................. and your kids would be fed a daily dose of outdoors and limited TV or video games.:?: That: and parents would be required to TALK to their kids and Barney, pokemon and the like would be displaced, not deported.

 

I dont know if its gonna be our current guy. Honestly, the talks of closing down Guantanamo alone make me sick. Its true that the war in Iraq has turned stagnant and is officially a waste of money. Dont get me wrong, I think we DID need to go there(I was there and saw with my own eyes), but we needed to let out military be the military, and not treat them like dogs on leashes. Look at it this way--if we let our military do its job and didnt worry about being PC, we would be finished and everybody would be happy. Maybe then we could validate worrying about wasting 338Billion?

 

First off, "worrying about being PC" also involves our country's overall global reputation, which has an immense effect on GDP/GNP, importing and exporting, and support in foreign affairs. If we piss off three quarters of the planet, we quickly realize how UN-super of a 'superpower' we really are. We become David instead of Goliath.

Secondly...how are we not letting the military do their job? Haven't they been there for 7+ years?

 

with that said Sean ( 7+) years. Had generals run the war, Iraq would be a memory. I dont support it, but our military power is certainly capable of making it happen. I lost friends in a war I never subscribed to in one sense. But as A kid I did commit to what I was called upon to do. That is a different subject however. Wars are not fought for a common good, but to line the pockets of few or push an ideal. At what point is any human so full of hate that they can put a bullet through a mans head ( and cherish what it looks like) for the ' GOOD OF MAN". Those with something to gain ( and not see the suffering first hand) and nothing to loose is my answer. The actions I have preformed will haunt me for ever.

 

had to elaborate a bit.The prior office is gone. The economy is screwed, we are screwed. Where do Bush, Ms.Rice, Cheney play a roll. It has no effect on them. They just go on, and the current administration is held responsible??????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????/
Westmoreland thought he won the" war "after the Tet Offensive. But hell it was a 14 year police action and not a "War". Then it became a "war" of attrition ( so they say, when the ideals they pushed did not pan out) not a fight against communism. Good thing Hue is still around, we would not want to upset a religion , Americans were expendable in the 70's. Sound similar?

 

Thank you, Danny, you summed it up. We werent really allowed to do our jobs. 7 plus years doesnt mean the military has been allowed to do much. Do you really think that if our, YOUR military was doing all they could, that we would still be in this mess??
You say that how we act effects our global outlook, and I would say you are mostly right, however, as I remember when me or my team was ordered to "clear a room", we took a major risk, when the SAS(brits) were instructed to do the same thing, grenades went in first, questions were asked later. The U.S. is looked at in the world perspective much worse than our counterparts simply because we are American....besides, I dont think we were too P.C. in WWII, we won that one.
Danny, lets ride Santiago when your back gets better!

 

Having trouble embedding this....

<embed src="http://www.theonion.com/content/themes/common/assets/videoplayer2/flvplayer.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowScriptAccess="always" wmode="transparent" width="400" height="355" flashvars="file=http://www.theonion.com/content/xml/93083/video&autostart=false&image=http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/SKANKS_article.jpg &bufferlength=3&embedded=true&title=In%20The%20Know%3A%20Are%20Reality%20Shows%20Setting%20Unrealistic%20Standards%20For%20Skanks%3F"></embed>

I think this video is related to this thread as it is also a time vampire.


..

 

Those of you posting at 2-3am => get a life!:lol: j/k or a job:lol: j/k again. I better stop there...

 

The Cure#2

Government has not always been this F'd up. :?:

My grandfather fought in the Korean and WW II that's why I espouse nationalism by hanging the American flag every day, out of RESPECT for what he and his fellow soldiers did for this country.

 

I appreciate your business with hands dirty or clean.

I was not trying to criticize your job. I am sure that there are lots of topics that we would agree on.

 

1, we (mostly) adhered to the Geneva Convention.

2, that was a world war. Not a rebellious "we're gonna attack them regardless of the fact that not one other nation on the planet thinks we should." IE, Vietnam Part Deux.

 

thank you. i'm a little late to this one. i should probably just let it die a quiet death, but i just wanted to point out that: there are three kinds of liars--liars, damned liars, and statisticians.

there are also studies that show undocumented workers actually add to the overall economy. it's not a black-and-white issue (more like brown/white/grey).

but one thing for sure- scapegoating will be a national obsession for a year or two.

 

People always say this...the cost of produce is low because of illegal imagrant workers. I have lived in SoCal for over two years now and have yet to see produce that says it is from CA. Maybe im shopping at the wrong places but all the produce i see is imported from somwhere else.

As far as paying taxes on gasoline and other purchases, that isn't all that much compared to what the state and fed take out of my salary.


Also, to note on the comment about america being a place for immigrants...thats entirely true! I think thats the great thing about the coutnry that we live in..seeing that a person can come from any where and succeed is a great feeling. I am only the second generation of my family in the US. The difference is when some people go through immigration following the legal process and others believe they are above all law and just exploit our country.

 

again. look at the history of legal immigration, especially with respect to central/south america. there was essentially no limit until the 60's. then an extremely low number was set that (surprise) led to the cycle of: undocumented workers--amnesty--economic slavery.

"The difference is when some people go through immigration following the legal process and others believe they are above all law and just exploit our country."...you mean like our politicians, pro athletes, banks, mortgage/insurance/oil/health companies. dude- i'm not gonna stand here and let you bad-mouth our american way of life.
:beer:

seriously- if you had a family (or not) and you lived in a third-world county next door to the richest (and they usually just looked the other way)--what would you do. a little compassion would go a long way in this debate.


btw- 90% of the country's fruit/vegetables comes from ca.

AND: we've dropped a cool 8 billion on the iraq war since this thread started. and lost about another dozen soldiers.