How to fire a customer in 10 minutes or less

This is why i build/work on my own bikes/cars/motorcycles/etc. It is inevitable you will run across inept and unskilled "mecahnics" in your lifetime. i know this because i work alongside "skilled labor" who don't have a clue how to do what they are being paid good money to be familiar with. Seriously one of life's most frustrating circumstances and a good reason to learn how to be self-sufficient.

 

WHOA!!! Too Many Thoughts to Express!!!

I am new to STR and could not resist this thread.

Let me preface what I will address by saying that I come from a similar background in the automotive industry, and have had both good and bad experiences on both sides of the counter. As a sales/customer service pro (20+ years), what I have been reading brings me great joy, only because I sometimes provide a consultancy service for those small businesses looking to increase customer satisfaction while maintaining their productivity, lowering operating costs, and increasing profits (tough gig some days).

Anyway, enough pimping of myself. My experience is a very recent one. While I am just getting back into MB's, I am by no means new to the sport. Just acquired a used FS Giant. Rode it for about a year without problems. Decided to take it in to my local shop to have it gone over (no time to do it myself right now).

Time and price-wise, all went well. Picked my bike (and my wife's) up from the North OC shop and headed home. My first mistake was not to take a quick test ride right then and there. Did not get to ride again for almost two weeks. Hopped on the bike and cruised down the trail, only to find that my front brake lever pulled all the way to the bar. NO FRONT BRAKES! Fortunately I was on a short and easy ride, able to continue on without incident. Did not get to take bike in for almost two more weeks because of work. Dropped bike off and pointed out to manager that front brake has not been operable since recent service. Bike was left for what was assumed to be a make-up repair.

Picked bike up two days later, only to encounter what I assume to be one of the techs filling in on the counter. A $20 brake-bleed bill awaited me. No time, no patience, and some sense of assumed responsibility for taking so long to address the problem with the shop caused me to pay the bill and leave.

Again, the bike sits for about ten days due to LIFE. Again, I get on the bike only to discover that the rear brake lever drops to the handle bar. NO REAR BRAKES!!!

Really guys, don't fix what isn't broken. Coming from a mechanical service background I am left to assume one of two things: Either incompetency led the tech to improperly bleed my brakes, on two occasions, or the brakes were intentionally improperly bled to increase customer-pay service business. No one likes to think that the latter is possible (if you only knew in the auto industry), but I think that the former is an even greater problem.

Yes, there are two sides to every story, but how do you explain that a bike operating in decent condition has now had problems with the operation of both front and rear brakes after a visit to what is supposed to be a reputable shop? If more parts/servicing were needed, then say so. Inform me, quote me, and let me decide my course of action. Just don't lie to me, BS me, or endanger me. No third opportunity will materialize for this shop. I have since downloaded the Hayes manual and will be buying the necessary supplies (from a different shop) to bleed these brakes myself. Looking for a new shop in the East LA/North OC area. Any suggestions?

 

DaddyRydz,
Having had a lot of experiences with hydraulic disc brakes, I can easily see how your situation may have played out.

When you first took your bike to the shop, they may have hung it in a manner that you've never hung it before (by the front or rear wheel, or upside down). This could have caused an air bubble that has always been in your brake system to move to another location. When you applied the brake, the lever went to the bar, as you had noted. I recently experienced this on a bike that I've had for over a year, and once I hung it differently, the brake suddenly didn't work the next time I used it.

When you returned your bike to have the problem fixed, they apparently bled your brake. They also apparently didn't get all the bubbles out. Having bled well over a hundred bicycle disc brakes, I have a lot of experience doing this. Nonetheless, because bubbles are sometimes hard to pull out of the system, I - or anyone else who bleeds disc brakes on bikes - will never claim 100% success. Acheiving 75% success is quite admirable. Having also bled well over a hundred brakes on automobiles, I can assure you that bleeding brakes on a car is much easier, and it is much easier to achieve 100% success. It's not a fair comparison. And no, I'm not in the bicycle industry; I'm in the auto industry.

It's good that you're going to learn to bleed your brakes yourself. However, if you're bleeding your own Hayes brakes, let me give you one piece of advice. You'll need a lot more patience bleeding the brakes than you gave your LBS. Good luck.

 

So I'm ok with bringing printouts of competitors ads for an in-store price match, but what irks me is doing this when the store's online price is lower than in-store. WTF?

 

1. Not completing the work on time. If you promise it in 24 hours, then, and this is just me, the customer should be getting a call that it's done before that deadline. Not three weeks later and several phone calls and visits from the customer.

2. Oh, I don't know-failing to install a part correctly as per the instructions and costing the customer time and money.

3. Ignoring customers. I've seen this a thousand times at LBS' in LV and I've seen money walk out the door.

I've never run a business so take this for what it is; You're going to get what you pay for. This applies to so many things in life, but for the sake of this thread, I'll apply it to your employees.

I know a few bike store owners and I know what they have to do to make it. The one thing those store owners have in common is this: They've still got 98% of the employees they had when I last saw them in 2004 and those are the same employees, the core of them, that I met when I first got into mountain biking in 1998.

I don't know about anybody else, but if I were running a bike shop I'd start with my employees. I know this would be tough and a very hard few years of busniess, but I'd be shooting more for the long term:

Hire employees that give a sh#t and pay them competive wages with benefits and regular raises. Provide them with training and treat them with a fair amount of respect.

I think this, above anything you'll carry in your store, will provide you with foundation that you'll build your business on.

Once you've got your foundation set, then move on.

The only thing that keeps me coming back to a LBS is the customer service.

AND I'm off the soap box. :clap:

 

If bike shop owners were good businessmen...

...they wouldn't be in the business of selling bikes to pain in the ass customers like us.

There are a few shops that are truly lucrative and run like a proper business with policies, procedures, and protocols, benefits, training, incentive programs, and even a corporate ladder with "upper management". You know how those shops make their money? Selling comfort bikes to my retired parents, beach cruisers to the flip-flop crowd, and training-wheel bikes to my daughter. Not $5000 boutique bikes like we ride.

Yes there are some exceptions. There are some really fantastic shops that just do it right. No question there.

The point is that most people that go into the business didn't wake up one morning and think, "Wow, BIKES!, that's the next big money-maker." They probably went into it against all odds, "This'll probably fail, but f**k it. I'll make it work." I say cut the LBS owners/employees some slack. Just be an assertive customer--"Hey, dude, I have been waiting for 15 minutes, let's just ring this up real quick." Don't be rude, just help the process along (half these guys are probably stoned!).

Now, if the people lie or make promises they can't keep that's an integrity issue. Those folks you just gotta let go. It's one thing to be a dumbass, but quite another to be a crook. It's always a waste of time to deal with a swindler.

Hell, if you don't like how the business works, open up your own shop and show'em how it ought to be done.

 

1) Not ride bikes themselves.
2) Not accept the 6er of beer I provide them (unless they're literally recovering alcoholics, or Mormons).

 

WHOA-Part II

2wheel_lee,

Thanks, advice is always appreciated. It's part of why I'm here.

Like you, I come from and automotive service background as a profession. I also have many, many, many years (and wounds) from racing motorcycles, so I understand your caution towards greater patience with my LBS.

Sadly, you may have missed the point of this thread entirely. The LBS techs could keep my bike as long as necessary to complete the job properly, but they have to make the effort. By releasing a job improperly done, they have shown a preponderance for performing shoddy work. I admit my part in this by noting my lack of a test ride after the service and the length of time for addressing the issue with the shop, and in my mind did the right thing by paying to have the brake bled again. None of this releases the shop from performing work to the satisfaction of their clients. The best businesses tend to hold themselves to a higher level of service than their clients will ever ask. This is where success lives. Know that in my years of riding and racing motorcycles I never had a DNF due to a mechanical failure (some luck here I'll admit), mostly because during my servicing routines if I did not perform a task properly I would do it all over again until I got it right. End of story! And this is where many businesses fail in their service to their customers.

Yes, patience is a great asset in many (Read: All) business transactions, but as a customer, we don't pay for getting it "Almost Right!" or "Well, It's Mostly Done!". We pay for a job well done, not half done. This was a long, hard and painful lesson that I learned over many years of work, sometimes in court, listening to the difficult-to-hear grievances of clients whom I initially thought were merely difficult at best. If I were truly impatient, I would never have been back a second time, nor would I have paid to have the brake (only one was inoperable at that time) re-bled. Sorry for the rant. Hope to chat on something better in the future. Cheers!:beer:

 

Endangered by improper shock installation

A local bike shop installed my shock incorrectly with two pins through the eyelet instead of one solid, all the way through, from rocker to rocker. I rode unknowingly for 6 mos while it held.

Later, I was in The Path and one of their mechanics bounced my bike before he put it on the stand and said, "Holy S___t!, your shock and the bushings are loose. Yes, the shock was loose and the hardware was clanging. One of the pins was at an angle and had backed itself out. I asked the mechanic at the Path to tell the mechanic at the other LBS what he had found. And he did.

Needless to say, when I came back to the LBS that installed the shock incorrectly, they took my bike and RAN into the back. They told me I was never in any danger and they'd repair it right away, at no charge to me. When I asked the mechanic why my brand new shock was installed incorrectly and unsafely, he said, "It came that way from the factory. I just installed it with the hardware that came with it. I didn't know how to install it any other way."

Moral of the story: Stay out of beach cruiser type shops!

 

While I had my two points above about non-riding shop owners and employees, and those who refuse my offer of beer, in the real world most shops aren't run by bean-counters who don't ride, and most don't refuse free beer. Most are run by passionate people who love bikes and riding them, and most are not getting anywhere near "rich" by doing so -- they've traded big $$$ for doing something they love.

This has probably been said before, but I'll say it again. When you go into a bike shop, you should go in as an appreciative customer -- appreciative that these folks made the effort to get a bike shop running, and keep it running. It's a lot harder work than almost all bike owners realize. It's thankless -- as this thread demonstrates, with all the attitude shown in this thread, I'm surprised that some who have posted here can get anyone to work on their bikes.

I"ll offer a reverse notion: how to become a non-preferred customer in 10 mins or less.

The fastest way is to believe "the customer is always right," and to try to "prove" that notion with your attitude and behavior.

In other words, if you feel the shop treats you poorly, it's reckless to turn around and be a demanding person under the assumption that the customer is always right.

I hate to break it to y'all, but the customer often is wrong. Of course he/she is often wrong. If he/she were "right," he/she wouldn't need to take his/her bike to a shop for someone else to fix. Eh?

 

We have a thread for that also...
http://www.socaltrailriders.org/forum/pub/18823-bike-shop-stories-rants-etc.html

 

Don't tell me where local trails are, because you feel I'm new/ unexperienced.

 

Talk smack about your bike while you're standing right behind them. I did that to a customer my first week wrenching...and felt like a total ass. #-o

 

Pay such crap wages that they only seem to be able to get morons to work in the shop.
This seems to be the case in more than one LBS I have known.

 

How about the creepy guy that ALWAYS seems to be on the day and time you're there and wants to follow you everywhere... and no I don't need another size....

Dang they need to cut his hours...

oohh - but I love the shop, mechanics and everyone else, they've gone out of their way to price-check the internet and give me the best deal - I have a great working relationship there and COMPLETELY believe in supporting your LBS...it's just the one guy - so I tolerate him... cause it's about 80-85% great....

 

crap. this has been on "simmer" for over a week, so i should get it off my chest. my friend from boston was in town two weekends ago, so we decided to rent a bike and ride to old camp. we called a certain well-known o.c. shop, chose a bike, picked it up late in the day, and took it to my house for the ride the following day. well, imagine our surprise when we roll into cook's, the old guy points us to the parking lot, and we see that it's a demo day--sponsored by the same shop. my friend felt a little used, but what the hell, let's just ride and get over it.
overall, we had a great ride, but he bottomed out both shocks--on the stt/old camp/luge mind you--not exactly a big-huck trail (they were "supposed" to set the bike up to his weight). he's a little more miffed. then we take the bike back to the shop, complain a little about what went down, and just get some shoulder shrugs from the employess. whatever. so we roll home and he realizes that he left his pedals on the rental. he didn't really have time to retrieve them, rationalizes that he was looking to get new pedals anyway, and blows 'em off. the shop never calls about the pedals. nice. end of business relationship between me and the shop.

i'm sure they have enough business to survive without me (we did go to switchback afterwards and dropped more than a few c-notes), but it was still very disappointing.

i guess that whole episode was a tad over 10 minutes. sorry/happy birthday, fred.

:beer:

 

This is an interesting point. Let's just say for the sake of argument that $15 per hour is a good wage for the average bike shop employee. If you pay to much more than that for customer service reps, and techs, you will have to charge more than anyone will pay. Many folks I know would rather let an imigrant or kid do the job at that wage.

 

That sucks. I am sorry that you guys were not satisfied.

I would like to point out that counting on a free demo bike may have been a bad plan. There are limited demo bikes, and customers drive from distant locals to try a bike that they are thinking of buying. Some folks wait for hours for a bike.

The guys from Pivot drove all the way here from Arizona to try to sell bikes, not to give free loaners.

There is no excuse for not having the suspension set up properly, however without more examination, this could be more involved than you are thinking.

We would be glad to ship the pedals to the rightfull owner on our dime.

This is a good example of why many business try to keep it way more simple than we do. We do not make much money on rentals. It is a service that we offer because we have demo and loaner bikes, and folks ask for it. If a rental turns into a bad experience for a customer, and that customer chooses not to come back, it is very discouraging.

Believe it or not, we need every bit of bus that we can get in these times.

 

no worries--i get the loaner/demo distinction. it was just a series of unfortunate events.

 

Simmer with these thoughts:

1. Used? That's a strong word and misplaced here. You're friend wanted to rent a bike, the shop gave him what he asked for. Would you be here complaining if the shop had said, "Show up for a free demo tomorrow" and then no bikes were available, blaming the shop for lying?

I bought a new laptop last September. The week after I bought it, a new model with new features came out. Did I feel used by Apple? No. I guess I just chalked this up to the "life" category.

2. Regarding shock set-up. It usually takes me a week's worth of riding to dial in my suspension on a new bike just right. So, putting the onus on the shop for this is a bit heavy-handed.

3. Bottoming out the shocks is arguably supposed to happen once or twice a ride (depending on bike/terrain), or some argue the suspension is set up too soft. With this in mind, the shop could have set it up perfectly.

4. Pedals: You're blaming the shop for not calling? One call from your friend and $5 says he'd of had his pedals in 3 days. You may sound like a nagging spouse who wants their spouse to read their mind, then gets mad when they don't.