How much road biking should a mountain biker do?

The same thing happened to me coming down Mt. Diablo quite a few years ago...except it was a Skunk!

 

did it have a French accent?

 

Yeah, come to think of it, he did.
That was the first time I let my cat tag along for the ride too!

 

I've never raced mountain, but two of my friends/cross teammates race semi-pro for Subaru/Fisher, so they probably know them.

Sylmar was my first ever cross race. I dropped my chain twice (once after the sandy section and once after the short run up) so I was really bummed. The chain got stuck between the deraileur and chainring, and it took forever to pull out and get running well. The second time made me fall and it moved my stem sideways... it moved back easily, but still, another pain in the ass.

Whatever though, I ended up in 6th and had a lot of fun. I can't wait to go for it again. My coach has me doing a lot of running and weight training in preperation for the road season next year, so cross really isn't a priority, only extra training and a lot of fun.

Did you race Sylmar?

 

I think everyone knows what I think of running ](*,)

Road riding is great training, building base, increase endurance, blah blah blah (it's been said).

If you ride Back Bay and want more hills, you can always go up Newport Coast, if you head up Quail Hill, you can do a great little bike path through Shady Canyon (no cars, cept where you cross the street) and it's swooshy (you'll have to ride it to see what that means) :lol:

 

I agree with the ZERO answer. Altho I've got an old road bike, and might consider commuting on it if was reasonable, but it's not (31 miles of freeway one-way). If I have any extra time to get a ride in, I prefer to DO IT IN THE DIRT, as the old moto bumper sticker said. Drivers around here are oblivious and / or agressive. Riding MTB, you are more likely to get injured, but riding road, you're more likely to get killed. I owe it to my family not to get killed. And yes, I know people who've been hit by cars, nearly killed. If I get hurt off-road, it's my fault. Besides, I prefer dirt to car exhaust.

 

I really enjoy both types of riding, mountain and road. How much is enough? This is a tough question. It really depends on what you want to accomplish. If you're going to race then like has previously been stated you need to log miles, mucho miles, the more the better, but the intensity needs to change. Read up on it, and experiment, you'll find what works best for you. Road riding will defintely help with your cadence and your endurance, but be careful, don't depend on this exclusively. I've found that you use slightly different muscles when you ride the two different kinds of bikes. I'm not sure why, but I am considered fast in road riding and middle of the road in mountain, but I love mtb a lot more. Another thing to consider is technical terrain. I've found that if I don't ride enough in the dirt my skill level for riding the tech stuff diminishes quite a bit and it takes a while to get it back. So the bottom line is to go ahead and put in the road miles (say 30% of your training) but leave the majority of your training to the dirt.

 

Not to speak for Mike but I would say like Mike I have logged more days on the road this year than on MTB. I have ridden close to 2,000 miles on my road bike so far this year and have been on less than 10 MTB rides. I have been training more for centuries this year and trying to gear up for three doubles next year. Any more a 50 mile ride is absolutely nothing and a century is pretty easy, assuming the elevation gain and altitude are not too great. I tend to train by either long slower rides or shorter hill rides. Either way my heart rate is lower than MTB; I'd estimate <80% max hr where max hr is 194 BPM.

Last week I climbed Lower Sam Merrill after work. It kicked my butt big time. Back when I was riding MTB all the time I could climb Lower Sam without stopping except for the one switchback with stairs. This time I could not hang with my heart rate so high for so long. I just didn't have it. I want to go out and try again to see if it was a fluke.

My initial assessment is that road riding has built my endurance tremendously but has hurt my ability to ride close to max. I would say this is because my goals for road biking have been to be able to ride 100 miles and now to push beyond that to 200 miles.

If MTBers are trying to find new ways to train I would recommend intervals and other ways to sustain high levels of output, in high gears, over increasing amounts of time. It seems for me the long and slow is not paying off for the types of MTB is used to do. But I am fine with that right now.

 

It depends on your goals... if you want to race XC at an elite level, you're going to need to put in long hours of training, and some of those are going to be on a road bike.

So, the answer may be zero for you. And, if he's not looking to be eventualy competitive at the Expert/Semi-Pro/Pro level, it may be zero for him as well.

BUT, if he's looking to make his way through the ranks in XC and do well, he's going to need to put some serious hours in on the road.

It all depends on your goals.

 

Find yourself a fast road training ride (i,e. Como Street, Rock and Road Shop ride etc.) and your ability to ride close to or at max will definitely improve. Riding with a fast group road ride forces you to reach the upper levels of your HR. Staying with the fast guys oon climbs, closing gaps, and attacking, are all part of fast road training rides and will push you much harder than any interval you may do on your own.
When I do these type of group rides, I see readings on my HR monitor that I never achieve, other than in some sections of an XC race.

 

I hear you Pilas about riding with a fast group. People generally will push themselves harder when they are with other riders.

For me I am trying to learn to go easier. I tend to go too hard in the beginning of my long rides. At the pace I keep for the first 50-60 miles there is no way I will last for 200 miles.

 

True story. Have you done the Simi Ride?

Intensity is still important, mix it up every now and then with a fast, hard few hours.

 

O.K., forgive me if these questions are stupid:

1. am I better of riding in the highest gear and spinning slower? or lower gears and spinning faster? does it matter?

2. is the basic goal (for mtb purposes) to get your heart rate up for long stretches of time?

 

A full on roadie would normally tend toward the faster spinning (you have to gradually work up to it) because it's more efficient. But training for mtn biking should include climbing in higher than normal gears (take care of your knees though) to get strength for the big hills.

Pushing a very high HR for longer bursts (with nice easy stuff between bursts) will let you climb a longer hill without getting exhausted halfway up.

Personally I like to mix up the different training styles (long slow, intervals, fast spin, etc.). Sometimes on the same ride, but more often I might set one ride per weak to concentrate on each.

btw, the great thing about riding with a pack of strong riders is that it costs you so much if you get dropped from the pack that you'll give it all you have to not get dropped.

 

I am definitely no expert, but here's the theory. You start with lower heart rate but with increasingly greater volume of riding. Cadence/gearing can and should vary. Eventually (after 4-10 weeks or whatever) you start training at higher heart rates and with intervals. The rationale behind this is that when every ride is anerobic (typical mountain bike ride), then your body is trying to recover and repair between workouts without being able to build endurance and stamina. It is hard to make really significant gains this way.

For example, a couple of months of easy road riding (keeping heart rate well within aerobic zones), will give a greater base to launch off with strength and power training once you start training interval, and eventually will allow one to pedal longer and more powerfully with less effort and lower heart rate overall - hence, better endurance and speed etc.

Well that's the theory anyway. And a heart rate monitor really helps - it is really easy to give into temptation and ride harder than you should.

 

The Dam Cross?

What were you wearing? I might have a shot or two of you.

 

A heart rate monitor is REALLY helpful, for that very reason! But, remember that there is a lag in time that the HR responds to stressors as well.

I'm no expert either, however, it is my understanding that you go hard on hard days--ride with the fast guys and give it all you have, don't even look at the HR monitor until after the ride. On easy days, you go easy. If just doing long distance rides for endurance, you stay within a nice comfy HR zone (aerobic). And, you mix it up a bit. But, be careful of overworking/training as well, as it's easy to do and can set back all of your hard work. Some signs are fatigue, increased irritation (on a non-monthly schedule), increased illnesses.

As for spin or not, that is quite a debate. The pro for spinning is that you don't overuse and fatigue the muscle group allowing for longer rides. However, increased spinning can translate to an increased HR, so you do have to build up cardio to work it.

Also remember that advice is always free and easily accessible, but you need to find what works for you.

 

Very true! After all I'm sure we can all think of fast people who have never trained or done a long slow ride in their life.

 

Not to start anything here, but I love the non-constructive opinions being dropped by people who obviously just have no interest in road riding--yet this discussion is taking place in the Roadie forum. I'm just getting into road biking and am following this thread closely, looking for tips and suggestions.

I don't understand the need to jump into the forum and then into a thread, just to talk crap. I'm sure it's all meant in good fun, but it doesn't translate well over the internet.

 

1. You want to find the happy medium between the two. If you spin too low a gear, you'll over work your cardio system and get out of breath easily. If you turn too high a gear, you'll burn up all your glycogen stores and you won't be able to ride as long. You should train yourself to spin faster with specific drills. A good rule of thumb is to start out trying a cadence between 80-100 rpm (road bike - on a MTB your cadence might be lower because MTB's often have longer cranks).

2. Depends on what you're trying to build. Generally you want to have a mix of lower heart rate sessions, elevated heart rate sessions, and interval sessions where you go REAL hard for a short period (30 seconds to 6 minutes) then recover for a few minutes, then go real hard again.

If you have a heart rate monitor, what you really should to is find your lactate threshold heart rate by doing a flat, 30 minute time trial and using the lap function to find your average HR for the last 20 minutes. That will be close to your threshold. HR below this, you're mainly aerobic. HR above this, you're anaerobic. More information in the books by Joe Friel. I have The Cyclist's Training Bibile.

I think doing long road rides helps a lot for training heart and legs since it removes the "distractions" requiring off road handling skill. Do road rides the same length (time wise) has your MTB rides, and throw in long/steep hills (Baldy, Palomar). Then on the trail you can focus on technique.