Help me find the right 29er

Bryan, don't get too hung up on TT length without considering the seat tube angle. A one degree difference in seat tube angle greatly affects the TT length. And many 29ers use curved seat tubes which can greatly throw off what the TT measurement appears to show. What may appear to have a short TT may also have a steeper seat tube, making the front end the same effective length as a frame spec'd with a longer TT.

Chewyeti, two chain tensioners are no better than one on the drive side. The tensioner on the disc side serves virtually no purpose (and barely useful for rear wheel alignment). Even with a tensioner, another shortcoming of horizontal dropouts is the brake force that wants to push the disk side of the hub rearward - a tensioner won't stop that. Having said that, I still prefer horizontal dropouts.

 

Lee, i understand the braking force, and the alignment side of things. Brian has experience with horizontal dropouts and believes misalignment to be a problem, so i suggested a tensioner on both sides. I somewhat agree that the second tensioner is for alignment purposes only. I reccomend 10mm bolt on axles to keep drive side from pulling forward, and brakeside from working backwards.

braking force pulling direction is actually dependant on caliper location. Look at the On-One frames and you will see that it is dependant on location (they put the caliper in front of the axle... in the frame)

http://www.on-one-shop.co.uk/?page_id=669

Standard Design


On one brake location

 

Your post got me thinking. I am on a 21 inch Lenz with 120 mm stem to fit me. Never thought about what this might do to the handling.

Can you or someone quantity what lengthening or shortening a stem does to the way a bike feels. I assume shorter stem = more stable, slower steering or do I have that backwards?

 

In the case of the on-one, the force is going to push the axle upward - not a problem, and no need for a disc side tensioner. EDIT: I see you added the illustrations showing this.

But when the caliper is above the hub (conventional location), the tensioner only keeps the wheel from going forward, but the brake force wants to push the hub rearward, hence the disc side tensioner being about worthless (unless it's the only tensioner with a beer bottom opener).

 

longer stem slows down steering
shorter stem makes the bike steer quicker/twitchier

 

So would a longer stem be more stable going thru rock gardens for example. That's where I suck.

 

I cannot agree with this more! The only thing that I hate about my niner is the pathetic ebb; life will be nicer without it!

 

How about just buying my XL Kona Unit-29? It's the 2007 version in a cool purple color.

 

If you're running a 120 mm stem, then a shorter stem will help you in the rocks.

 

yeah, chewy. I was just noticing that on-one puts their brake tabs in between the stays, and that would make things null. my experience with horizontal drops has been on my mob, where I was having a lot of trouble with my wheel shifting around under braking. finally got it all figured, but yeah.

I wonder though, would there be a logical weak point to having the brake there? to me it seems like putting it in the standard position without having a stay bridge. you're putting all your braking force into the chainstay, instead of both the seatstay/chainstay. just a thought though.

Lee, are you talking about standard TT length? or effective TT length? the way I see it, ETT is usually measured at the intersection of the centerline of the seatpost, and a horizontal line from the top of the head tube. it seems that measuring like that will yield the same measurement, despite the ST angle or position.

what I'm saying is that the seat will be in the same position no matter what, and then it just becomes a matter of how much room I have when standing.

so, to fit myself to a given bike, I would get something of a rough ETT size that I know fits me closely (25.25ish). then, adjust the seat position such that my knees are in the right place (or however you're supposed to locate the seat), then size the stem to make me comfortable. anything wrong with that logic?

the longer the stem, the slower the steering. my problem with longer stems (I used to run a 120mm on my trail bike), is that they steer like a bus. you're really swinging the bars to either side to turn, as opposed to just turning the bars.

a shorter stem allows for quicker, twitchier action. I happen to like that feeling, as it allows for corrections to be made without a lot of effort or thought.

a shorter stem will also allow you to move further behind the bike going down hills. this tends to make things a bit less sketchy, and reduce the incidence of OTBs in my opinion.

 

This makes me want to through a 100 mm stem on there and see how it feels. The bike climbs great now though and I'd hate to compromise that feeling as I like to climb. :?:

 

horizontals first, sliders second! ebb, never again for me.

bryguy....if you are in the mood for a ti silder bike, PM me. depending on what you weigh, i might have something for you.

 

I honestly think there is way toooo much over thinking going on here...demo some bikes and go w/ what fits and feels good...

 

where is 'there'? standard or on one mount?

either way... its connected to the dropout, which transfers it to both seat and chainstays

 

I will say, I LOVE the way my bike climbed with the 120mm stem. you could tractor up anything. that said, handling, safety, and general enjoyment of the ride down is more my priority, so I run a shorter stem (have an 80 on the trailbike now). I can climb 95% as well as with the long stem. the worst that happens is your put on your old stem.

true, but this is what happens when lots of bored people at work start posting. that, and a lot of 29ers feel the same to me, so demoing doesn't completely work. that, and the fact that there's maybe 3-4 other people that I know that are anywhere near my size (though in different proportions) that have a SS 29er.

just looking though, on-one just got the slot dropout inbred in stock in my size. for like 200 bucks. in bright friggin yellow :-k :bang:

I may just do that and buy a used reba to put on it, and come in a few hundred under what I'd pay for just a niner frame :-k

chewy, I'm referring to the on-one mount. just wondering, as that's why people put stay bridges in, to better spread the force to both stays. it was just an odd thought. thinking about it a bit more, if it's actually mounted to the dropout (as opposed to a tab that's welded to the stay), it wouldn't be a problem, since it is connected to both stays.

 

yeah brian, the caliper itself and the mount are essentially a bridge, and ar epart of the dropout.

 

I wasn't sure if you meant actuall TT or effective TT when giving your numbers.

Even still...yes the seat tube angle can still play into things. Most frames are designed for the average sized user. Some of them expect the bike to be set up with a set back seat post, and some expect a straight post to be used. In the actual geometry, that can be about a degree - or upwards of around 0.5-.75" inch of effective TT length.

TT and seat tube angles mean almost nothing compared to reach (you know, the increasingly common terms of reach and stack) from a vertical line from the cranks measured to the centerline of the head tube.

Our Black Market Mobs are good examples. Because the seat tube is relatively slack (designed for a straight post), the front cockpit turns out to be very short, compared to other common bikes with the same effective TT.

As Shu said, just get out there and demo some bikes. You may be surprised what actually fits you.

 

Just got off the phone with the DOC and the the new ride so here is the deal...

XL Niner One9/GG
Chris King Head set/Pink
Pace Carbon Fork
Thompson Post
Hope Clamp
Thompson Stem
Sunline Bar
Niner 22t cog

800.00 but you can not pick it up until after my surgery on the 21st of Aug and you may have to pull my parts off before you take it...

LMK...

 

thanks lee. I'll keep that in mind.

I'm seriously thinking of just going with the On-one though. cheap, and fits most of my criteria. I rode Chewy's scandal for a bit and it felt really comfy.

that, and I don't have a yellow bike yet, so that could be fun :lol:

Jeff, that is a very tempting deal. I'll need to think about it

 

Bryan -

You are welcome to borrow my scandal for a week if you want.