Ride Report Heat's on in El Moro today!

Exactly. Removing unnatural eyesores from our pristine wilderness is one thing, but if doing so, please find a suitable trash recepticle. Littering (even when the culprits are hikers, trail runners, or equestrians) makes MTBers look bad! [-X

(note to the credulous: j/k)

 

When I used to do TAV in El Moro, I found more hikers from the housing community using the "Nothing Better to Do" trail than riders. One day, there were about 2 mtb'ers, who (of course) stated that they did not know the trail was not legal. That same day, we saw more than 10 hikers, in groups of 4-6, using the trail; they just shrugged when I informed them that the trail was not legal.

 

Just to add to the destructive nature of whoever...I was TAVing 3 weeks back and saw the Rangers putting in a new 4x4 across the "Step Through / Cross Bar" complete with big bolts etc where Fenceline/Retail ridge meet Bommer Ridge. It was already torn out, guess it is too hard to step over the cross bar... it would completely destroy my ride...sheeeshh


BTW it was "Rattler Day" @ El Moro, I saw two "doing the dance" very dark in color...and I ran into at least 5 other people reporting rattlers. I think they are starving for sunshine with all the over cast.

Sorry for the crappy pic...left the good camera in the car ...figures...took to long to get them together

 

Add to that the well established trail running club who run Lizards on a weekly basis...

 

It may not have been MTBers who did it but we will be the ones blamed for it in the long run.

 

Bingo. Before I started riding I was heavily involved with OHV's and faced significant access issues all over Southern California. Simple things like this can really screw big things up. Leave the sign alone, respect what the sign says. Fight for what you can in ways that actually show results. It sucks, but tearing signs out makes it worse.

Infighting doesn't help either. You have to find a way to work with them and not against each other. I just wanted to run my jeep through rocky canyons, motorcycles and quads would tear up the campgrounds. Did enviro's care? We were all users of the area and therefore guilty.

 

in addition to the official closure reasons that gene posted, deer canyon is also considered a crucial wildlife corridor from the coast to inland areas. regardless, we've--i mean y'all--have been riding those trails on borrowed time for quite a while. and laguna coast will most likely follow suit.

the good news--there's still plenty of fun stuff out there to ride. don't let it get ya down.

btw- the evil toll road always gets interjected into these debates. it really has nothing to do with how the parks regulate their trails...if anything it supports the environmentalists' argument that so much habitat has been taken and/or fragmented, what little is left needs to be protected and preserved. i poach as much as the next guy, but i don't try to rationalize it in any fashion other than the trails are fun...

and, since this will inevitably make paint mtbers in a bad light, it's probably a great time to get involved with some high profile activities like trail maintenance and bike patrol- and be cool about the unofficial trails. i've seen a park in norcal ban mtbers for a few months because of these kinds of issues. and then there are the ongoing battles with irvine south...you can always count on us being the first user group to have our card pulled.

also- i just back from a blast of a weekend in idyllwild, where the only riding limitations are your stamina and your ability to sleep with rowdy campers (okay, there is ernie maxwell, god bless his soul). go forth and ride.

 

My in laws have a place in Pine Cove up near Idyllwild and I've been wanting to get up there to ride a bit. I found some ohv trails way back when but they were few and far in between. Had read that was an enviro headquarters area at one point so it was pretty much locked down on adding access.

 

That may indeed be true, but it is curious how those with the dollahs seem to get their way more than those without.
While it does not play in a micro eco sort of way it is clearly a macro issue.

I'd love to see the impact to the overall environment is all toll road expansion was to be stopped for the next 100 years. Think of all the single track we might be able to build in place of the road!!!

 

^^ and just imagine how much s/t there would be if the irvine company never existed. i know some other developers would have filled the void, but it's doubtful that they would filled every valley and hill with homes- ergo, no need for toll roads. we'd be riding s/t from santiago peak to the coast (now that's a shuttle).

 

Donut shop opens at the bottom of NTBTD...

That’s the best trail that park has... EVERY good trail started as an illegal one. So a park just decides to make new single-track. That doesn’t happen... Do they think all their fire road is fun? Maybe if they embraced the hard work people put into their park they would get more revenue to the park. Do they not see the traffic fenceline gets. They need other outlets in the park.

 

Thank you for that point.

The toll road and housing developments are a done deal. Rationalizing that the habitat was already disrupted so it's OK to poach closed areas is self-serving and extremely short sighted. Personally I can have a hell of a lot of fun without any poaching at all, and I don't see running out of trails to explore in my lifetime.

OC Parks didn't build the toll road, but they control what remains at El Moro, so lets be responsible trail users and do what we can to educate others and exert some influence on desired management of the park. I think we could make a pretty good case that El Moro has overuse of some trails (Fenceline is getting wider by the day) and that opening established but previously off-limits trails could benefit the park as a whole and improve safety.

 

I call bullshit on the above, to all three of your points.

1) The developments are not a "done deal", they were and are negotiations, with "open space" (read: parklands) one of the bargaining chips.

2) Habitat in "developed" areas was not "disrupted", it was destroyed... let's not mince words here. It becomes an issue when a major argument against "poaching" is "disruption" of habitat, which is pure hypocrisy (not to mention ignorance). The "closed" trails in ElMo/LCWP have existed for decades, and combined are a mere fraction of the habitat disruption that is caused by the "legal" fire roads and trails.

3) Many of us who enjoy challenging (FR/DH) type terrain cannot enjoy ourselves here indefinitely (barely even in the short term) by staying on the local "legal" trails.

The bottom line is simply to ride what you're going to ride, and keep quiet (incognito and low-impact) where it's common sense to do so.

 

I find it somewhat disingenuous that the authorities are claiming that these trails which have existed long before the houses did are somehow causing the pristine "wilderness" to go to shit.

I wonder how much disruption the construction of Newport Ridge Park caused/es relative to those enjoying the closed single track in LCWP and El Moro???

 

Not to mention that the area is about a mile or two away from a pristine abandoned landfill. This whole issue makes my head hurt...our county should be expanding outdoor opportunities not trying to stop one that is older than the park.

Dean

 

No no no! According to some here, development has nothing to do with the park system.

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

 

you're right. i can think of a couple dozen illegal trails in the oc park system- just on the coast. the parks should just grandfather them all in, let mountain bikers build a few "deliverance" style trails in each park, and let the bmx-ers build some jumps and some pump tracks. of course, the equestrians would want some of their own trails, like goat in santiago oaks. then the running clubs would want their own trails to train on. hikers would want some of their own peace-and-quiet trails. and those dudes with the remote control toys need some space to rip it up.

OTOH, the parks already don't have the money/manpower to maintain the current trails (who on here is helping?); and each year there are numerous rescues on fairly innocuous trails like rock-it and rattlesnake (and who pays for that?). gee, maybe it's not such a simple black-and-white, libertarian/laissez-faire issue after all. and maybe the status quo ain't that bad...

and: for the record, lcwp was not "negotiated", it was purchased by the city of laguna beach.

seacrest out.

 

Most of you guys sound like a bunch of NIMBY's, whiners, moaners, or misguided "F the Man...I'm riding it anyway". If the MTB community had any real stones under all that DH body armor then they would have gotten together as a unified group to work with and within the system to address some of these issues.

Ever wonder why Fully loop has staying power and will continue to grow even with some of the proposed development? Local power players use it. You want OC Parks to be more MTB friendly (as you perceive it)? Then you better get involved, see what their perspective is, what actions they take based on decisions they have no control over (emergency trail access is a product of CA litigation...hiker gets hurt, snakebit, can't get rescued timely, OC parks gets sued cause its a "park").

Besides Warrior's Society and the relative handful of members that are regularly active, is there an STR Group for OC...LA...Ventura...SD? I don't see one.

If we spent as much time doing this instead of bitching about it here...well, we'd be able to bitch about to each other in person while fixing the problems instead of looking at a computer screen.

Rant over...

 

Hey now, let's not beat around the bush. Tell me how you really feel
Seriously, I'm sure I could have phrased things better - I'm not sure we're as far apart on some of these as it might seem.

My point was simply that many keep citing the existing toll road and housing as reason to poach, which seems silly to me. They exist - they are a done deal. No two ways about that. But of course the battle to stop additional encroachments on open space is ongoing, and you are spot-on about the relationship between construction and open space as a bargaining chip.

Side note: I can't believe I used the word "developments" to refer to the houses and strip malls. I hate the euphemisms of "developers" and "development," since those terms imply that nothing of value would exist without grading the land and covering it with concrete.

Again, I agree completely. They destroyed wilderness to build roads and houses. But I think it's important to recognize 2 things in this conversation. First is that while we may not completely destroy wilderness areas, with enough traffic we (all trail users) can seriously degrade habitat. And the second point is that when advocating for places like El Moro, Aliso, etc., we need to clearly distinguish between the desire to use historically-existing trails versus creating new routes. I have no problem with people working to restore and legalize established routes like those at El Moro or the soon-to-be-reopened Car Wreck at Aliso.

Here's where we diverge. I'm not into FR/DH stuff, but I recognize that those trails are few and far between. But I don't see how poaching DH trails in county parks does any good except for that few minutes of fun for one person. It brings attention and enforcement to the trail, like we're seeing at El Moro now, and the few who do that brand all mountain bikers as people who can't work as part of the trail community. In the long run, that hurts our credibility when we want to build or re-open the very trails you want to ride.

I often see comments here about how these are public lands that "we" own. That may be true in a broad sense, but the reality is that the control over these lands rests in the hands of a comparatively small group of people who work with an entrenched structure of regulations, money, and political influence. We have to be able to work as a community of trail users if we want to exert our own influence on how these lands are managed.

edit: For those who want another good trail in the area, note the SHARE trail work day on Car Wreck at Aliso this Saturday.

 

Prepare to stone me...

But I actually see more and more land being opened up to access...

Used to be just El Moro and Aliso...now LWCP south Side / North Side, Bommer Canyon, other IRC Land.
I understand there is an additional sections that will be opened up in the future...

Seems like I have *more* places to ride than I used too...not less (IN THIS AREA)

There will always be not enough / too many / legal...illegal trail wars so be it.

Yeah I would like to see more trails, and yes I actually volunteer...

BUT Hell everybody acts like they are ready to get involved..get puffed up...body up....but I can't even get more than 3 people to pick up trash on the trails they ride every day...for money! .... never mind organize and work the system which would really take effort.