El Moro unauthorized trail closure

Screw that! I'm grabbing my shovel and I'm gonna go make a new trail to replace this one! :lol:

 

well, from where i sit (on by bike at laguna coast), a lot has been ruined. there are a number of "historical" trails in both parks that, although not legal, were tolerated by the rangers. and those same rangers are in favor of eventually opening a few of those trails.

but over the last year or two new illegal trails have been carved out and the parks had to put their collective foot down: closing/posting (most) illegal trails, handing out warning tickets, and hiring new rangers to patrol. it will only get worse.

now you have to stay on the official trails or worry about tickets or possibly losing your bike. it used to be you never even saw rangers in the park. also, i've lived in places where the parks closed all of the trails to riders for a while to make their point. so, yes, a lot has been ruined.

also, you may not be aware of the big picture of why some of those trails are closed. it could be because of habitat corridors, erosion control, plant/animal habitat preservation, cultural/archeological sites, or from too many rescues of injured riders. i'm not an expert, but i know all of those are factors for some of the trails. a ranger could give you specifics. these parks were never intended to be amusement parks.

 

Choose your weapon.


Its easy to see that the bike will do less damage.

BTW that was my first bike. From there I think it went webco , vdc, CW, Powerlite, Race inc, Then a scooter , street bikes and a car and girls. Didn't look back. WHoo Hoo I only miss the yama bike though.
And yes I got made fun of. But Its cool because they are all fat and old and I still think that bike is cool.
The Kawasaki bike was cool too but I have been a Yamaha ride since I could walk.

 

Trail damage

Has anyone noticed that over the last year that Cholla, a legal trail is substantially wider than it was in the past?

Do we know how it became a double track or almost a fireroad?

The rangers drove a CAT, as in caterpillar up it, up a single track.

Yeeee.

PS Who is the guy threatening to ban me for nothing?
Is there no freedom of speech on STR?

 

Jason, we are apx the same age and I feel what you are saying.

None of these illegal trails are "new" except the trail that this thread is about. People act like Johnny Apple Seed is out there building “new” trails all over southern California. All the "new trails" that everyone is talking about are trails that have been brought back to life after years of accumulated overgrowth. All of which at some point in time were legal.

Meanwhile, "new" and "legal" trails are built mostly by the exact same methods and mysteriously happen to be right over the top of previously existing trails that historically were legal.

You read it right in Chopper’s post. Everyone has his or her own opinion. It is the people who drive the RMP who decide what is going to happen and either they need to be persuaded to open challenging trails or build trails that meet EVERYONE’S desires….or, if we want other trails to be open, we need to get together and take the necessary steps to get them opened ourselves. In the past I have tried but for the most part, people are just more willing to jump the barbed wire.

That was an "accident" by the cat driver. He was supposed to grade the fire road between Cholla and the houses.

 

What is wrong with you?

I never accused you personally of anything,
Go ride and have fun.
5%, banned? From what, for what?

 

You talked about riding on Telonics which is one of the rules of posting. Not my rules. I just enforce it. And no, If we gave STR total freedom of speech, it would be nothing but flame wars.

Ride where you wish just don't post it here. Banning someone for breaking the posting rules or deleting posts or closing threads is never personal. I have a job to do here.

Gene your STR moderator :wave:

 

Oh I see Gene never said you are 5% band. He said you represent the 5% that like to break the rules . No worries Thats no big deal.
There is a rule on STR we do not mention the illegal trails.
If anyone does a search the last thing we want is STR to pop up with people saying how cool a trail is to ride that is illegal.

STR is abotu trying to get more and more trails opened.

Tom, Gene was not going after you personally he was basically doing his job and a mod.

I believe Gene can relate to how we all feel he rides more that about anyone I know. No one likes restrictions. Not even Gene.

 

Flaming vs free speech

I understand the flaming thing, but being banned for discussing a trail?
Rules are rules, so I won't say the T word or the D word.

PS I only ride fireroads, my favorite loop is to go up to the top of cholla, by the street of course, then ride the fireroad all the way to top of the world. Then I turn around and come back down the same fireroad, all the way to my car.
Its so cool.

 

I fell over laughing.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
Thats what I do too.
But I walk my bike down as to not scare any of the south African blue belly lizards. You know they are extinct right? Isn't it fun.:-k Just keeping it PC.

 

You don't get banned for discussing trails, you get banned for breaking rules of posting, there is a difference. Like I said, it's never personal. See you on the trails.

Someone's warm-up could be someone else's epic ride. Why knock them for it?

 

Exactly Gene, I guess we all can't be hardcore like that guy.

 

Flaming!!

Couldn't this be considered flaming?
This is a personal attack.

 

He was kidding.

I guess you just have to know him to get his dry humor mixed with a touch of sarcasm.:lol:

It is next to impossible to get a feel for someones character over the internet.

That is why I am always popping in and saying things to defuse arguments.
In almost all cases I know both people. Or I can see where the person is coming from and have been there.

 

Cool quote!!

 

This makes TONS of sense to me, Thanks!!

 

BTW, ThE LONe pIXie trail that RFXIbibisTom spoke of earlier is not illegal. Just because the Rangers at Aliso tell you it is does not make it so. In fact the rangers have no authority over that trail anymore than they do over my backyard, it's not part of the park and is actually city property. So until the city says something, which to this point they haven't I wouldn't be all too concerned.


Also for those of you haven't already checked it out, go to the IMBA site and download the Guide to Building Freeride trails, it's full of great info on how to make things happen and helps you understand why in SoCal this type of trailbuilding will never happen at your local trails.

 

What?

C'mon man. What are they supposed to be "misery parks", "lack of imagination parks", "don't have any fun parks", what?

I think I am going to go out on a limb and say I don't really care when it comes to an area that is sort of "foggy" or that is not explicitly marked as illegal or closed.

However, if the trail is clearly illegal, I will most likely honor that because, you're right, they could be trying to preserve a habitat or whatever. That kind of stuff needs to be done.

In any case, I am willing to take some risks to ride the more clandestine trails. If I have to run or hide or whatever, that's fine. I had to do that with skateboarding so I am more than willing to do it here.

I think there are a lot of other ways to attack the issue of dwindling riding venues. I think they need to be a bit more extreme and a bit more guerilla.

 

We need to careful to be accurate here.

Telonics has never been legal even though it was not part of the park. It is not shown on any authorized map and there have been Laguna Beach P.D. officers called out in the past to deal with the use of the trail. I don't believe there has ever been anything but a conversation between the P.D. and the users (from what I have heard just to appease the complainers); but nothing that has occurred can still have the trail considered legal.

It was just one of those trails that Laguna Beach and the private property owner basically let slide. Just like Stairsteps......never a totally legal trail until Laguna Beach recognized it and included it on their trail map, which in turn was the tipping point to where the County recognized it and signed it at the top; although it's not technically part of Aliso-Woods except for the very top.

The property that Telonics is located has been purchased by the Laguna Canyon Foundation and is now part of the protected Laguna Greenbelt, and more-than-likely will in the future (near or far, I'm not sure) become part of either Aliso-Woods or Laguna Coast.

This is why for so many years I keep posting about the danger of users simply sitting back and being complacent. Sitting back with blinders on does not work, and we'll probably see Telonics go through the same issue as many other trails. Eventually it will probably be closed and the users will all clammer at the eleventh hour and get all worked up......even though they have had years of warnings and years of time that they could have spent working to get it legalized.

If it becomes a part of the county park and is not added to the RRMP for the Park.....it will be closed and restored back to habitat and users will be cited. With 12 years of warnings.........IMO, users will have no right to complain, especially if you've been riding that trail for 12 years, and in 12 years have done nothing........you should not be surprised if it gets closed.

The people who have been using this trail for years have literally had years to show up to meetings and start asking for it's inclusion onto the mapped system......but out of all the City Council Meetings, Coastal Greenbelt Meetings, County Board Meetings, RRTAC Meetings......etc... that I've attended for the past 12 years........I cannot recall anyone ever asking for this trail.

People need to be willing to get involved and not expect a relatively small group to do all of the work for them.

I've stated it before on previous posts.........if people are passionate about Telonics......they better get off their butts and get involved.

Once it gets a biological review and gets listed to be closed......it will be closed, restored, and enforced.

People need to really post accurately here.

Telonics is not legal and is definitely on the bubble to be closed.

 

Rangers don't drive the Cats, it is either Orange County Fire Authority or a vendor they hire. How someone thought Cholla was a fireroad in beyond me.

Dean