DWLink vs VPP2 your input wanted.

I am just the opposite. I don't care about brake jack, because I don't need to use the brakes as often as most others here - they only slow you down.

I prefer a bike that has the accelerates quickly, climbs well offering good traction, and stellar DH performance. So I ride a Tracer VP.

Although I've had many versions of the VPP design (Intense 5.5, SlopeStyle, and M6 - all VPP1, and a Tracer VP, which is VPP2), I have never noticed any brake jack.

 

Unfortunately, I sometimes brake too often and the M6 does have brake jack. There have been instances where the suspension has completely locked out. I never had the problem on the Tracer.

 

In your case, trust your instincts and skill - you don't need the brakes as much as you may think. Besides, aren't you running an overly stiff spring on your M6?

 

No, I am not running an overly stiff spring!!!

 

I would love to have the skills to ride like you do. But even if I did, I don't feel too comfortable bombing down the trails I ride because of hikers/horses. I would like more braking control so I can ride faster on those trails and be have more control under hard braking.

 

Most of your braking power comes from your front brake. Moreover, the front brake does not cause brake jack. Try using your front brake more so you can have better control.

 

I feel I do that already, but maybe I should work on it more.

 

I tested both and went with the DW link (Ibis Mojo). It rocks!!!
My experience was 2 main differences
1) pedal input/feedback.
The VPP (santa Cruz LT) does stiffen periadically when climbing and bumps or rocks are encountered. I could feel the rear end stiffen and the pedal firm up like a hardtail. Some people might like it others might not.
The mojo had a firm pedal when climbing but you didn't notice the feedback when bumps or rocks are encountered. It acts more like a 4 bar. Pedal and suspension are sperate.

2) down hill suspension
VPP seamed to have a nice plush feel through the stroke but stiffend up at the top of the stroke or when the chain tensioned, not sure what caused it, but it was noticable. It was an odd sensation I didn't care for. Some might like it.

Mojo really performed smoothly in the bumps. I compared the mojo back to back with a Moment and the mojo handled the bumps better. I really couldn't believe it.

Try to demo before committing.

 

No brake jack at all.

 

Not in my experience -- at least with my Santa Cruz BLTc. And no pedal kick back either like old 1st gen BLT.

 

All I know, I have a 5 Spot but...

Want to build a killer light Pivot Mach 4

2 ultimate rigs im my stable

Thanks for the tip

 

Off-topic hijack...

So perhaps I'll try to throw out something useful regarding front braking - I didn't mean to sound like a smartass. One way to practice using your front brake is by learning to do front wheel skids - seriously. First start out at a fairly low speed on dirt, shift your weight way back and lock up and skid the front wheel until you come to a stop. Try to keep the front of the bike going straight ahead by shifting your body position. Do this a few times and work up to slightly higher speeds. You'll feel more comfortable doing this unclipped, because as you come to a stop, you'll want to put your foot down.

With some practice, you can also do front wheel skids in a parking lot, even one where there is lots of traction.

Over time (and I don't mean simply a one hour session), but if you practice this routinely, you'll become more comfortable with what the front of the bike does with a lot of front brake. Obviously, the goal isn't to skid the front wheel on the trail, but to know the limit of how much front brake you can apply as well as know how to control the bike if you apply too much front brake.

This is one of my fundamental skills I practice on a regular basis (such as when regrouping on rides).

 

shsshh lee don't let people know that the stopies, wheelies, pivots, pedal kicks, etc we do messing around actually help us ride

 

Or for a completly different angle.

There is a lot more marketing hype and Lab prototyping then there are differences in types of bike suspension. For simplicity I could point out that VPP uses chain tension to stiffen up, DW remains more neutral, and Niner and Giant just ripped off the fundamentals and went to the other side of the BB to avoid royalties:lol:.

What everybody missed is regardless of what you choose expect it to be saddled with a Fox shock#-o. I don't like them cause their "adjustable platform" just uses shims and fluid (fluids don't compress = mushy) resulting such apathy to tuning that most folks cant tell whether it's turned on or not:?:. Just like a Toyota Camry it's perfectly marginal enough of a performer to be used by a wide cross section of the public, the majority of whom have never tasted something truly high performance. However just like windows in PC's and Gasoline at the pumps Your "personal" decision will be made for you by some soulless corporation that is only interested in profit.

For something truly different, throw a leg over the fisher Roscoe or a Trek with the DCRV shock, or cooler still the Knoa Magic link bikes. All the others by comparison are just different shades of the same color, Green 8) .

 

Wtf??? :?::?::?:

 

I just wanted to thank everyone who chimed in. I need to give the Tracer VP a shot for sure. That will be my main mission before it is time for the final decision. I appreciated the opinions and good points many of you brought up.

 

Ohhhhhh.....how you have admirable character, I Love It! Honesty!!!!! Alas:clap::clap::clap::beer:

 

Any updates?

 

Just curious if anyone has updated input on this topic now that CTD shocks, elliptical pivots, and a couple years of refinement on these designs have been applied.

I may be pulling the trigger on a new XC/trail 29er fairly soon. My ride for the last few years has been a Yeti 575, but since I generally keep the wheels on the ground and don't ride the really steep, chunky stuff, I'd rather trade a bit of travel & AM ability for better pedaling and lighter weight. My short list includes the Santa Cruz Tallboy (regular, not the LT), Turner Czar, Pivot Mach 429, and the Ibis Ripley.

• I've done a thorough demo ride on the Ripley, and loved it in every respect (OK, the color choices aren't my favorite, but I can live with that). i know it's the outlier in this group in having more travel, but it's also a fast & efficient pedaler.
• I did a mellow ride on a Tallboy and liked it more than expected, but I didn't get to push it much. It's climbed and pedaled really well, but I didn't get any fast descending or singletrack on it.
• I rode a too-small, too lightly suspended Czar in a parking lot test. It felt like a small, soft Turner, meaning it has tons of potential for greatness, but I really have no clue about real-world trail riding on it.
• I also rode a Niner Jet9 RDO on a moderate trail ride. It was nice, but seemed too XC-race purpose-built for my taste.

So I've ridden a variety of modern multi-link suspension designs (DW, VPP, CVA), but in unequal tests, so it's been hard for me to evaluate the differences. All pedaled well, but in all-around performance I can't make a judgment. So does anyone have an updated opinion on DW vs. VPP, or on the comparison among these bikes in particular?

 

Skip the theoretical and speculative homework and do some field research. Also, don't be afraid of the long ETT.