DWLink vs VPP2 your input wanted.

Hey all - I posted this in another forum, but since this place has way more members I thought I could draw feedback from a larger sample rider population.

I am interested in hearing from people who have ridden DW Link and VPP bikes (especially the new VPP). I really want to demo a new VPP bike, but have had zero luck finding a local place where I can really ride one.

As far as the DW link is concerned, I have ridden 3 bikes that have it and it was seriously impressive. The no peddle-bob was one thing, but the DW Link RULES on technical climbing especially on loose terrain. I like to climb, so this is a pretty important to me. Does VPP handle well on similar terrain? I would like to know since I may never be able to demo one.

Anyways - your input would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Joe:beer:

 

The Path sells Intense and may have a demo to rent. Or try calling Intense direct. I had a 6 Point for a while and now have a new UZZI. I think the UZZI climbs better.

 

Some VPP designs work well and others, not so much. The DW link bikes are pretty much the same, some good, some bad.

I would try to narrow down your selection a little more.

 

I ride both.

 

I've owned both suspension systems. I'm a climber as well so it was just as important to me. I had an '08 Intense 5.5 EVP (w/'09 RP23) for one year, 1st generation VPP I think though. Great bike, no real complaints. I sold that for a '10 Pivot Mach 5 and have no regrets whatsoever.

Pedaling the Mach 5 without using ProPedal is just about equal to have it at ProPedal 3 on the 5.5 EVP. As long as you are smooth pedaling, without mashing, the Mach 5 is bob-free and smooth as silk. I couldn't get the stiffness I wanted without using ProPedal on the Intense. The main difference in the pedaling category is that since there is no ProPedal used, the Mach 5 gives you the best of both worlds...a bob-free, stiff pedaling platform but soaks up ALL the bumps in between. The ride is just so smooth. I did not get that with the Intense 5.5.

Another main difference is that the Mach 5 suspension is very active under braking where the 5.5 is jarring. The Mach 5 is a much better ride overall. I was a smidge away from getting the Ibis Mojo SL at first, but the reviews overall and advice from Pato stated that the Mach 5 would be a better fit for a pedaler like me, while the Mojo SL is more plush. I have not tried the Turner 5 Spot however.

I sense that the 2nd generation VPP may be a lot better than my previous Intense though. Report back your findings!

 

Test ride 'em both if you can. In late 2008, I wanted "graduate" from my 4" travel XC bike to something in the 5" or more "trailbike" range. Spent countless hours studying (drooling) over Intense, Santa Cruz, Turner etc, learning all about dw Link and VPP, reading forums, asking people and eventually riding (thanks to some generous - and trusting - owners) a couple iterations of my choices. They were without a doubt, awesome rides.

I also test rode a Giant Trance X around the same time (which was getting some really favorable reviews). To me, the Giant felt really awesome, on par with the others I had ridden. What really got me was the spec and the price....to get an Intense or a Santa Cruz down to a reasonable price (which was still substantially more than the Trance), you had to accept some compromises in parts.

In the end, I bought a 2009 Trance X2. It had the performance and spec I wanted, built by a company with a very good rep for service/reliability and it had a price tag I could justify...you know, kids, mortgage, beagle, etc.

Anyway...just sayin'. Get what feels best to you and matches your expectations...50 people will give you 50 different answers...
:lol:

 

Wow! powerful feedback....thank you. Awesome avatar though!

I have got it down to two bikes. Tracer or 5spot.

I rode the mach5 and it is a really nice bike. Climbed like a goat! The set up I demo'd though felt a bit too "XC."

 

What else can I help you with?

 

Talk to the guys at The Path about the spot and tracer. You probly demo both there.

 

Pluses for the Tracer:

1. Plusher over small stuff, but only when off the brakes and pedals.

2. More versatile: Travel adjust, 1.5 head tube allows for lots of options, adjustable rear travel from 140 to 160.

3. I like the look, and they are made in house in Temecula.

4. Suspension feels bottomless. It feels like it has more travel for sure.

5. Suspension is very firm under pedaling, and the bike really shines under hard acceleration.

Pluses for DW 5.5 Spot:

1. More controlled/predictable seeming suspension.

2. Plusher when on the brakes or pedals

3. Less chain growth/pedal kick back (reduced with VPP2 but still true)

4. USA made from a very reputable factory, and one of the most balanced rides out there.

5. Suspension is firm under pedaling, and still absorbs bumps. The traction seems a little better when pedaling smoothly in the rough steep tech.

I have about 5 hours of trail time on each of these bikes. I have personally owned a DW link Sunday, and a VPP M6. I have talked with countless customers and friends for countless hours about their experiences on both models, and both suspension systems. I have also owned and ridden other vpp bikes and DW bikes. Hope this helps.
​

 

one drawback to the tracer that isnt talked about is that the bottom link is a lil too wide and when in the granny gear about halfway through the rear cassette the chain rubs on the link

 

If you are unsuccessful in finding a VPP bike to demo, then don't buy one. It would be much better to buy a bike that you have tested and know for sure is what you want. I demoed all the bikes mentioned in this post ( I rode 12 different brands before I settled on a Ibis Mojo). I loved a lot of them, but they are different and have different feels to them which fit various peoples needs. You are more than welcome to ride my bike with a 32mm TALAS and XTR build. Whatever you decide on, you will love it, those are great bikes.

 

Different strokes for different folks. You can't go wrong going to either a VPP/DW from a single pivot. I went from a GF to a Kona to an Intense and am now on my second Intense (2009 Tracer) within a 12 month span. I've never tried the DW and always wanted to, but as someone who's only been riding for about a year and a half I doubt that I could tell the difference. Whatever you decide, go with the 36mm front. You won't regret it.

Eric - I'd love to try out your Ibis if you'd like to try my Tracer. It might be a little too heavy for you at 30lbs though!

 

+1 for DW Link. I demo'd Tracer VPP, Spider 2, Ibis Mojo, and Pivot Mach 5. I went with the Mach 5 because pedaling efficiency was my main concern. I thought the tracer was a bit more plush but the mach 5 was a better fit for my xc riding style. The path demo's both VPP and DW bikes. i think its like 55 bucks to demo for a day. If you buy a bike from there the 55 bucks go toward the purchase of the bike. Actually, i think there is a free pivot demo day this sat. I think it would definitely be worth the trip from SD if you are seriously interested.

I demo'd the mojo and loved it as well. The only deal breaker for me was not being able to put a water bottle in the front triangle. I like to have a camelbak for water and a bottle for electrolytes. (sorry to change the subject)

 

Can't go wrong with either....

I ride a 2010 Santa Cruz BLT Carbon with the latest generation VPP and it rocks. I too am a climber and enjoy steep technical climbs. But I've also been known to get my freak on the steep and deep. When you let this puppy loose downhill, it rails. Solid. Like Buttah. It's absolutely brilliant in all respects. I had traded up from a first gen BLT and there is no comparision. Having said that, as one of our fellow riders stated in this thread all VPP is not alike across bike companies (and I assume not all DW-links perform the same across different lines as well). I demo'd an Intense Tracer with second gen VPP from The Path and was not impressed with the ride or build quality of the frame. But that's just me and my opinion. One of my riding buds pilots a Pivot Mach 5 and he absolutely loves it and it's a beautiful bike. I demo'd an Ibis Mojo from The Bike Co before I bought the BLTc and it's a fine machine in every respect-- I was VERY tempted to go Ibis. BUT at the end of the day, it was what I was familiar with-- I was a loyal Santa Cruz fan and knew my first gen BLT and its VPP ride characteristics like the back of my hand. Trading up to the 2010 BLTc was for me the logical thing to do. It had improved upon what I had always thought to be the best trailbike on the market. At the price point and brands you are looking at, you can't go wrong with either-- it all depends on what feels right FOR YOU.

 

I have a 09 DW Link Turner 5 Spot, It is WAY BETTER overall riding than my 08 Giant Trance X.

I tried VPP bikes and didnt like the brake jack and the bobbing under mashing.

Demo diffrent DW Link bikes

 

In my experience, the DW is better on the downs and the VPP is strong on the climbs. The new VPP is more simple and works great on the down and is still very stiff with little to no bob on the climbs. I cant tell a difference when I'm in pro pedal or wide open on my RP23 when going up. I love my Santa Cruz Blur LT2 but if I had the money, I'd be riding a Pivot Mach5 in a heartbeat!

 

I demoed both the Pivot Mach 5 and the Tracer VPP. They are both great bikes and the Pivot climbs better but the Tracer descends smoother. It's all about personal preference and yes, you should demo before you buy!!!

Oh, almost forgot, I demoed the Ibis Mojo (25 lbs) and LOVED it more than either the Pivot or the Tracer (going up and down) but my sponsor doesn't carry Ibis.

 

I demoed the ibis with nancy. it was awesome! the downhill stuff was ridiculously plush. like a magic carpet ride. no kidding.

 

Is there any brake jack with VPP or VPP2? I think that would be more important to me than climbing capabilities between VPP and DW.