Changes at Blackstar Canyon ??(merged)

All in all, a pretty positive event, though I'll certainly reserve a bit of healthy skepticism until they see it through.

Cons:

• They said it's all still a proposal, but there are a lot of indications that they'd like everything to go through as proposed. One sign was the fact that they've already started grading what will be a new roadside parking area just past Baker Canyon.
• We'll probably have to pay to park close by, since the road will be lined with new fences, eiliminating shoulder parking.
• County parking will be closed at night.
• The speaker's comments about eliminating parking if people are in the OC park area at night vandalizing or cutting new trails. In response, several of us shared concerns that restricting parking would create danger and inconvenience to residents, as CNF users would end up parking in Silverado Canyon or on Santiago Canyon Road.

Pros:

• There was a very collaborative tone, especially among residents, hikers, and mountain bikers - that was great to see!
• Several commissioners, along with a rep from the IRC and numerous OC Parks rangers were in attendance. Other than CNF reps (who had a conflicting meeting), all the stakeholders were represented.
• Blackstar Road will remain accessible 24/7!
• There would be much-needed restrooms and trash bins.
• There will be a multi-use trail alongside the road leading to the new gate, so we don't have to mix it up with vehicle traffic so much.
• We could have some new singletrack, and they seemed open to input and volunteer efforts from user groups.
• Trails would likely connect from Silverado Canyon, eliminating a little of the road riding when doing the Motorway loop.
• I believe the current modifications included parking for 90-100 cars, some along the road and some in a new lot across from the tree farm. As the meeting wrapped, I was approached by the rep from the Irvine Conservancy asking about how many cars are normally parked along the road. I later talked to an OC Parks rep who said they'd never studied the amount of cars along there, since it's currently IRC land. The OC Parks rep said he plans to recommend a study to make sure they understand the volume needed. Between these two, it sounded like there was sincere interest in making sure they accommodate enough cars for Blackstar/CNF traffic, in addition to what the new park might draw.

All in all, I see this as pretty positive. OC Parks was asked about the timeline, but couldn't give a solid answer, as some key things still depend on negotiations between the county and the IRC. It looked and sounded to me though like this could start happening very quickly. Keep a close eye on the OC Parks web site for any future input opportunities - we need to be heard!

(sorry for the long post, but there's a lot to absorb!)

 

It was interesting to hear some new stuff and some of the same ol' B.S.

The RMP is not public and the county will be given an "all or nuthin' " proposal. Can't wait to hear what the RMP actually proposes.

The County Parks folks did state that their charter was to increase access and if the RMP did not provide for that then the County would not accept the deal. We will see.

As I ride back from B* I was wondering what kind of benes IRC is getting for the transfer.... does anyone here know? I doubt very seriously that there is not some sort of quid pro quo.

I was concerned that the Parks folks seemed not to acknowledge that there was any legal parking on the road. Interesting since I saw 40+ cars parked between the gate and Baker Canyon where the new gate is proposed. But no parking between 10PM and 5AM signs are posted everywhere. If there was no legal parking, then why the signs... makes one say "hmmmmm."

In total, I counted 65 vehicles parked legally between the Xmas Tree farm and the gate.... seems that at the very least we lose legal parking along Blackstar Canyon road and in return get to pay $3 for parking during daylight hours. Maybe access is 24x7 but parking definitely ain't.

Seems the linkage the Parks folks make between illegal trail cutting/riding and MTB access is somehow being influenced by IRC current policies. This is the only organization I know of that might be putting forth these punitive measures as some sort of solution.

Spoke to some really nice locals who were really interested in having the MTB community more involved.

Free advice here: I feel the influencial locals want the involvement of the local MTB community. They seem really nice folks and they generally consider us a positive force. So, be especially nice if you ride early AMs (6-9) since this appears to be the time where most of the local residents walk the roads/trails.

Seems we are not always vilified but I did receive one specific request to try and slow the speed of the vehicle traffic up to the gate. Seems there is quite a bit of excess speed being seen up to the gate. Point being, the road ends and taking a few more seconds to get there probably won't make anyone miss their ride time and it will help with the local support...
just sayin'.

65 at 2PM today

 

I know that the Irvine Co wants to put a few thousand homes, a golf course, etc., in the vicinity of Irvine Lake, so perhaps some of the negotiations with the county include concessions such as zoning changes, etc. to facilitate future development.

I think I also recall reading that certain portions of the new park would require restoration that somehow involves payments from the county to Irvine Co or IRC of $2M per year for 10 years. Before anyone freaks out, it was clear today that the new park would be managed and operated by OC parks, not IRC.

Maybe someone can clarify/expand on these for us?

BTW: Mark, Mary, Dean, Gregg, Darin, etc. - good too see and/or meet you all today. UR2 - were you the one wearing the STR jersey? I never got to meet that person.

 

Yeah, I really don't understand that one.
Time and time again we have seen that Mother Nature does a fine job of restoration all by herself!
It is only when Man gets involved that things get screwed up

 

Thanks all for going and providing reports.
Looking at that kind of consultant provided conceptual map stuff tells me that someone (OC Parks or TIC) has already spent a lot of money on a plan that might be rubber stamped when meetings happen.

I think if this land abuts the CNF; it might be better to be added to the CNF - but they probably don't have any development rights to give to TIC.

Did anyone happen to ask if we'll still be able to bring a brewski or two up B*?

I'll check to see if I can make the Parks meeting this week when the rubber stamp is applied.

 

Don't ask, don't tell

 

It would be nice to have the exit from Smashface tie into a new Silverado Canyon trail since some locals have expressed concern about the current exit down to the road.

 

yep

 

OC Parks Committee Meeting this Thursday

The OC Parks Commission meets this Thursday night at 7:00 p.m. The meeting is at the Irvine Ranch Historic Park Headquarters Building, 13042 Old Myford Road, Irvine. This is right off the intersection of Jamboree and Irvine boulevards, across from Target. Here's the map link.

There are a couple significant issues for cyclists on the agenda:

OPEN SPACE LANDS TRANSACTION – UPDATE NO. 4
(Note: When did they do updates #1-3?)

The Draft Concept Plan for Black Star Canyon Wilderness Park covers approximately 2,000 acres of the Open Space Lands and includes three staging areas to provide access to approximately 15 miles of trails. The Irvine Company and the Irvine Ranch Conservancy, as part of the Open Space Lands Transaction, will be responsible for the design, permitting and implementation of the improvements described in the Draft Concept Plan.

RECOMMENDED ACTIONS:
1. Receive and file Open Space Lands Transaction – Update No. 4.
2. Take public testimony and provide comments on Black Star Canyon Wilderness Park Draft Concept Plan.



LAGUNA CANYON ROAD BIKEWAY – PARK ABANDONMENT
Small areas of Laguna Coast Wilderness Park and Aliso and Wood Canyons Wilderness Park adjacent to Laguna Canyon are required to widen the existing shoulder to provide a Class III bikeway. Because the park property is subject to park use restrictions, it must be abandoned before it can be transferred to Caltrans for street and highway use.

RECOMMENDED ACTION: Recommend that the Board abandon 0.353 acres of Laguna Coast Wilderness Park and 0.291 acres of Aliso and Wood Canyons Wilderness Park to accommodate the construction of a Class III Bikeway along Laguna Canyon Road.


Come on out and make your voice heard. There were maybe 50 people at Blackstar last Saturday to see plans and give input. Let's make sure that mountain bikers continue to be an active part of the process.

 

I plan to attend...thanks

Dean

 

I asked this exact question and got a lukewarm "no trade" response. I don't buy it, but it's probably not the right fight to fight any longer. Now it's about favorably shaping what's clearly going to be shaped.

Not thrilled with paying to access what I have for free already and getting limited access (exit access will be available for those that "arrive a little late" but not night parking if you arrive after dusk).

On the plus side, some water, benches and a toilet aren't bad things. Maybe a bike wash? :?:

 

I would bet the deals where worked out many years ago. I question why such a emphasis on nature conservancy and recreation taking a far second or maybe even last. I pretty much know the answers to my own question. Good public image for Irvine Company to be saving the critters and bushes. Behind the curtain it probably works like the carbon offset plan that our government is trying to pass.

As a property investor and land developer in Arizona we are getting many proposals from conservancy groups try to tell us we need to buy into their rainforest conservancy projects around the world so that we can get carbon credits at a before the law goes into effect discount. They tells us that we will need to have these credits to be able to build in the future. Why would I spend money in a project outside the USA and not employ my own neighbors. Is this where our county is heading? I hope more become aware of this scam before the law gets passed. And if it does pass why not do offsets in our own forests and add bike trails with features.

Dean

 

Bump for the meeting tonight, and to admit that now I'm not going to be able to be there #-o

 

Thanks for posting this, Waldo. I don't think i'll be able to attend the meeting, but i'm quite interested to hear about how it goes. Hopefully someone will post something here afterwards.

 

I did attended meetings and really did not learn anything more than was presented last saturday. Before getting into the agenda items, they open the meeting by offering to hear any comments from the community. That would be the time to give input to the county about and complaints or suggestions you have our county parks or future park plans.

I really don't have any problems with anything I heard tonight or any of the plans they have in the future. I did learn tonight that the county has plans to replace the three bridges past the Blackstar gate near the three residences out there.

Not sure I will attend any more of these meetings unless I have a specific agenda. They are very aware and working on solutions for safe night time parking for us to night-ride the canyon.

Dean

 

I feel the same way.
As soon as the RMP becomes public should be an ineresting time.

That is good.
I think the crew on Saturday made sure they realize this particular issue is paramount.

I wonder how they will handle detours when the construction starts?

BTW, thanksfor attending. What was the distribution of folks there by interest??

 

Hard to tell only 4-5 of the 20 plus citizens actually addressed the board, three of them lived in either Blackstar or Silverado Canyons. Their concerns are the new gates might restrict response time by OC Fire, new park lighting disrupting the animals, the park removing the business owners signs out on the corner of Santiago Canyon and Silverado, and limited parking in the new park pushing people to park out along Silverado Canyon. The owner of Baker Ranch was in attendance as was the fire watch lady.

Disco brought up the issue of parking during the Vision Quest and the commission wants to sit down with the Warriors Society and talk.

Dean

 

Dean - thanks for going and reporting back. Really wish I could have made it.

I hope they referenced the Pow-Wow in a positive light. I wondered about that on Saturday as we were all talking about parking & access issues, but since I'm not in the WS, and Gregg didn't bring it up, I didn't want to get into it.

Did they happen to say any more about doing a study of current parking utilization, or about the timeline for the whole deal to move forward?

 

Not so sure it was accepted well when the commission heard 400 cars parking in the canyon.

No time lines presented except for interim management plans. Seems like they have no intension to study current parking as the right current usage off as being illegal parking on private property. I question wether the current county road easement goes fence to fence or just the pavement.

Dean

 

Thanks for attending; I wanted to go, but my wife has pneumonia - someone had to cook and clean last night.

I was poking around on the web and found that OCTA got $800,000 of the stimulus money for Black Star Road - must be that bridge construction.
I hope they don't build a monstrosity that will be out of character with the canyon.