Changes at Blackstar Canyon ??(merged)

http://tinyurl.com/yakoah8

Sounds like the local residents won and we lost. At the very least we will not have access to Blackstone Canyon road at night which means we can't get to the Clev. Nat. Forest at night. The worst case is that the road will be limited access even during the day like some other Irvine Conservancy "open spaces".

The most troubling bits:
OC Parks planners are still working out details, but turning the area into a park would likely mean moving the entry gate closer to the intersection of Black Star Canyon Road and Silverado Canyon Road.
The public could park in a staging area behind the gate during the day; at night it would be locked, though residents would have keys.

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Does anyone know for sure what this means to us?

 

Not Quite

Not the first thread on this topic, USFS/County easement will stand; all that is happening is the land is being transferred from private to public hands. What this means for us is more access for everyone, and once finalized it can be ridden without docents and even camping eventually. :clap: Plan has been on the table for nearly a decade, some of us have been following progress in the local paper from the beginning.

BTW, any gate would not affect the existing parking at the tree farm and would likely be placed beyond the entrance to Baker so as not to impede the Green waste trucks. This article and your assumptions are based on the first 10% and the most accessible part of the land grant. The area described in the article is everything southwest of the road, the red cliffs and water shed we currently have no access to. We are gaining and not losing any right on existing public land.

 

It sounds like the easement is for residents only.

We gain a county park that is now closed private land.
We lose night time access to the clev. nat. forest.

 

From that link, there was a video that made it sound like this is a GOOD thing for hikers/horses/hikers since they are opening access and improving the land.

 

Confused and staying tuned to this thread to see what this really means.

Disco...do we lose night rides there?

 

I hope I'm wrong but I can't of a single example of a park with a locked gate that allows access at night.

 

Yeah, I don't see how the article implies we are losing Blackstar. This sounds like a change for the better, so long as there remains adequate parking.

EDIT: OK, I understand. You think that if the county road was part of the park, and the park was closed at night, it would limit access to Forest Service land past the park. That would be a bummer. I guess we need the road to stay open while the park is closed after hours.

 

That we'll have to pay for now? #-oCounty park, Adventure Pass, State Park...hmmm...this is getting expensive! :lol:

 

Yep, that's it.

The people pushing for this are the local residents. Since there are NO residents on the paved Blackstar Canyon Road before the gate they must be referring to the people who live along the road in the Clev. Nat. Forest. If we still had access to the Clev. Nat. Forest at night then the residents would not benefit from the change.

It is easy for the gubermint to say that we are not loosing any access because technically the Clev. Nat. Forest will still be open at night. We just won't be able to get to it. Sneaky.

 

You know what they say about assumptions.

No. It's nothing sneaky and the residents cannot afford 20k plus acres of prime real estate. Irvine Co. has a development plan for both Orchard Hills and some luxury horse properties surrounding Irvine Lake (think Coto). As part of the mitigation for county utilities the most desirable park lands have been studied through an interpretive docent program over the last 5 years.

Funny how quickly rash opinions can spread hysteria though, expect the same sort of discord over the next 20 years as the last of the Rancho Mission Viejo (Antonio and Ortega) is eventually paved with red roofs. Infrastructure for this site will fare much better, the more southern development will be stymied by efforts to "save trestles" despite being miles from the ocean. Public opinion on these matters can easily be swayed by the plight of a small mouse or bird no matter how much sense the "big picture" makes. Though it makes business difficult I for one would not have it any other way, this is why Malibu, P.V. and O.C. cost so much; standards are much higher than Downtown L.A. or the (909).

http://www.socaltrailriders.org/forum/general-discussion/40717-blackstar-regional-park.html

http://www.socaltrailriders.org/forum/general-discussion/6807-blackstar-constuction.html

 

All I know is what I read in the newspaper article. It didn't mention anything about development, but it did say this:

"Parks officials say turning the area into a county park also could cure chronic troubles with crime and late-night partiers on Black Star Canyon Road, which now leads to a locked gate on the edge of the property. Beyond the gate, the road allows access by foot or bike to the Cleveland National Forest.
Nearby residents, however, have complained for years about revelers who converge on the area at night for drinking, making wilderness trysts and, at times, launching bottle rockets from rock ledges or firing guns into metal signs.
OC Parks planners are still working out details, but turning the area into a park would likely mean moving the entry gate closer to the intersection of Black Star Canyon Road and Silverado Canyon Road.
The public could park in a staging area behind the gate during the day; at night it would be locked, though residents would have keys.
That, parks officials said, would discourage criminal activity and make the park entrance more accessible to law enforcement."

The article refers to nearby residents. It doesn't mention future residents.
If you look at the map included in the article it looks like it will wipe out access to the Clev. Nat. Forest at night. I am not saying the primary intent of these changes is to limit access to the CNF but it does sound like this will be one of the consequences. (I have no additional facts and can't contribute anything else to this discussion.)

 

Just want to make sure I'm following the logic. It is currently illegal to launch bottle rockets, drink in public, and have trysts in public (wtf?) so now switching ownership and declaring it a park (by the same group of folks that can't figure out how to balance their own checkbook without a handout) is going to change this? Interesting. I feel like a couple of pages are missing from the manual.

 

The title of this thread is very misleading. Read the article carefully and don't skim. We are not losing Blackstar.

 

You're right. Does anyone know how to change the title to something like "changes at blackstar canyon?" #-o

 

I fixed it for ya: Changes at Blackstar Canyon ??

 

Sounds to me like we will have to park further away in order to ride Blackstar at night, that is it. The road is still open, they are moving the gate.

 

Personally, I'm satisfied with the Blackstar status quo. If the Irvine Company wants to divest itself of land, fine. If OC Parks wants to add land to their system, fine. My skepticism arises from my experience that government pencil pushers invariably feel compelled to "improve" wilderness with roads, buildings and restrictions on access. On the surface, this seems like a zero-sum exchange for current users. However, I wouldn't be surprised if, after a few years, we're paying fifteen bucks a pop for the privilege of parking in the new "staging area."

 

Changing property owner on each side of Blackstar does not change the status or access of a Forest Service access road. I don't park by the gate anyway...too many break-ins.

Doubt these decisions have anything to do with local residents, if that was true the road would have been closed long ago. More than likely what is happening is Irvine Company exchanging lands for the right to develop other holdings. Wait until we see what else Irvine Co. has in store for the foothills.

Dean

 

more like the least desirable area for housing tracts.

keep us posted, disco.

 

IF they blocked the entrance through Blackstar you'd still be able to access Cleveland NF via Maple Springs, Harding, Skyline and HJ...