money talks... you can't ride this trail or that area becuase of the delicate balance of animals, plants, insects e.t.c, but if you have millions go ahead and doze away. it's the hypocritical system in which we live. a golf course?!, that all we need in O.C. another exclusive golf course. a designated single track or to plow over all the land to put in a "smooth" fairway. I want to pedal in hard and launch over the sand trap. i love the scene from Falling Down when Michael Douglas walks through the golf course and the guy freaks and has a heart attack...classic.
I haven't read this whole thread, so I apologize if I'm repeating, but there are a couple things I want to chime in on. First, the issues of recreational access vs development of homes and strip malls are related but separate. I think this thread was started with an intent to improve the way that existing trail areas are handled by the users. Of course if we can't find ways to use these areas responsibly, we will have even less of a case to make when trying to fight development, but it starts within our own community. Second, I am disheartened by what I think is a simple lack of personnel patrolling these areas. A little more visibility, whether it's in the form of rangers or volunteers, could go a long way towards making a statement that these are areas to be protected, as well as monitoring the activities of the "bad 5%." Even in places like Whiting and Aliso, I very rarely see anyone who is identifiable as a ranger, park worker, etc. I rode Aliso yesterday and am extremely disturbed by the condition of the Meadows Trail. It seems like just in the past few weeks, the number of shortcuts had expanded tenfold. You can just about go straight down the hill from the mid-point on down due to all the illegal lines, several of which are routed around fences, etc. I couldn't help but wonder what impact it could make if a ranger with binoculars spent an hour of a Saturday morning at the bottom of that trail confronting those who cut across. If not a ranger, maybe a few Share, Warrior's Society, or STR volunteers? My $.02. Thanks for reading.
It is a great point. SHARE already has a volunteer program, where riders with identifiable club jerseys ride the park, assist hiker, riders with maps, extra water, fixing flats, etc... Occasionally, we will encounter riders going to illegal trails, all we can do is educate them on the trail access problems and hope they understand. SHARE is always looking for people willing to help, if you are riding the park 2-3 times a month, why not put on a patrol jersey and help showing a responsible biker presence. You can achieve more by education than by repression.
I understand about the overuse in this part of the park, in fact this is without a doubt the most overworked park in all of mountain biking.(USA) Looks like something new may have to happen here, there's just to many people trying to ride such a small area.
Thanks but no thanks... The last couple of guys I saw coming down an illegal trail, I went up to and said it was an illegal trail and that they could gt a ticket if the ranger saw them... that I wasn't trying to hazzle them just inform them. They told me in no uncertain terms to mind my own business and F-off. I swear if I had had a gun I'd shot those MF's in the mouth ... (a bad decision in afterthought) but pleasure to think of. Fortunately for me, I wasn't armed... only angry at two prime a$$es I may be little, but I'm feisty....
That was exactly my point, and I'd be happy to do that occasionally. I suspect that my wife and a few friends might help as well. I've been a member of SHARE for a few months, but have received nothing via mail or email about activities like this. I'd also be happy to do some trail work to help restore the damage there. Looking at their web site I see a calendar full of Path shop rides and some links to report volunteer hours completed, but nothing about this sort of action. How do I find out more? OMR...take it out on the crank arms, not the riders. You don't want to muss your hair over this!
Forgive me if this has already been covered. I have not been able to read the entire thread yet. For those who have not sat through a public land management meeting that is trying to decide trail usage, I highly suggest you do. I have chosen to involve myself in the PV fiasco. I can tell you all, I had no idea that people out there existed that had so much hate for bikes. Most of them are just looking for the slightest excuse to ban us from the trails. These type of people would point to the rising number of citations issued to cyclists as "proof" that bikers can't follow the rules and should be kicked out. Prior to sitting in on these meetings, I would have never realized the potential damage to the entire community that riding illegal trails could have. Over the past 3 days, I have spent 12 hours up in PV passing out flyers trying to educate the bikers about what is going on and try to get them to stay on established trails and remind everyone that we share the trails with other users and that we have to ride with courtesy and respect for others. Most bikers I have talked to have been very receptive and appreciative of the information. However, I did come across a group of DH/Free-riders that were completely dismissive. They basically had the attitude that what ever trails we would be allowed to ride wouldn't suit them (i.e. no jumps, technical drops, having to go slow etc) so they were just going to ride like hell til we all got kicked out. Talk about a completely selfish attitude. I explained to them that in conjunction with our efforts to keep the trails open to bikes were we lobbying the city to establish a free-ride zone on city land outside the preserve. They didn't really seem to care. They wanted long DH runs and not just a jump park..... I was so pissed off, I was ready quit. Why should I spend my time, effort, energy and money going to late night meetings, spending hours at the trail head talking to trail users, spending $$ to print up flyers, etc, trying to keep these trails open for bozos that couldn't give a rats rear? I respect what JamR is trying to do. We talk about the 5% that ruin it for the rest of the 95%. Lets also keep in mind the other 2-5% like JamR who are out there working with land management agencies to keep trails open for ALL of us. For years, I've ridden trails in so-cal with no idea of what went into getting those trails open to bikes. We all take those efforts forgranted until the trails are closed... then we all wonder why anybody didn't do anything???? JamR is trying to point out a problem that before it affects us all and is asking for help coming up with a solution. Its time for the other 90% of the community to stop taking trail access forgranted and start helping. If posting offender photos on a hall of shame is not the answer, what is? Sorry for the rant, drc
I have read almost all of the post on this thread and i am in agreement with the majority about not taking pictures of the people who are riding illegal trails it is a bad idea................BUT!!!!, besides patrolling nobody has a better one. JamR I say give the wall of shame a try if it doesnt deter well then we can go to another plan. But something has to be done about these jackholes that contiue to give our sport a bad rap. I myself am guilty of never going to any land access or land management meetings, i have one more semester of school and when Im done getting people to respect mountain biking will priorty number one on my list "I swear if I had had a gun I'd shot those MF's in the mouth ... (a bad decision in afterthought) but pleasure to think of. Fortunately for me, I wasn't armed... only angry at two prime a$$es" By the way OMR ur the s**t!!
You can come to the club meeting. They have a meeting the first Monday of the month. Look at the calendar on the website for location and time as it sometimes change. You can also send an email to [email protected].
Organization & Involvement... ...are the key. I just joined SDMBA and will get more involved. We all have busy lives and there are many worthy causes (even more worthy, like life & death...), but complaining doesn't help much. There is a link between this trails discussion and the development issue. As pointed out, many trails are not just in recreation parks or open space (our tax dollars) but are in habitat preserves. These exist because of legal mandates for developer mitigation and the primary purpose is plant & wildlife survival. Through local politics we need to let our desire for less development and more open space for people be heard. It's not one or the other: plants/wildlife vs bike trails -- both are needed and we need to ask & fight for them. A coupla points: -About the trails & predators - yes, they fragment & allow coyotes, mtn lions and local dogs into heavy brush cover that would otherwise offer prey a haven. - Plenty of space out in the desert - (I can forgive a Bostoner for this one) -- the desert ecosystem is fragile and unique. I would like more MTB singletrack access out there because I love the desert, but it's not exactly empty. And we would still need recreation close to home. It's a great thread, and I'm glad to see discussion vs flaming. Go ahead and beat that horse, it ain't dead yet (hmmm...that expression doesn't really work if you want the horse to live...).
Just be thankful that the city of Irvine has allocated some space for us to enjoy and that Rabbit Run is not part of some rich fellow's backyard...
I don't believe the existence of that preserve is through the benevolence of the City of Irvine. Many would say it was Donald Bren's payoff to allow more development. The fact that it's managed by a trust makes me believe the City of Irvine is too cheap to fund it. ( I could be totally off base here) But I'm sure they would have no problem collecting fines from poachers. I have a hard time understanding people's opinion that our parks and open space are gifts from the great government provider. The only power they have is given to them by you and I. Our tax money pays their salaries and operating budgets for the parks. Let's never forget that. If you're happy with the way county parks are being managed (or lack thereof) Reelect our county supervisors. If you are dissatisfied, write a letter to those in power informing them of your dissatisfaction. Cowgirl's example in the Santiago Oaks discussion is excellent. Their failure to act is cause to boot them out of office. I know how I'm voting next time this group of losers runs for reelection. Sorry if this has gotten off topic. I know Jamr's area is not county but I would like to hear the specifics on the relationship between the City of Irvine and the trust. C
The relationship is simple. The City of Irvine has hired the Irvine Ranch Conservancy to manage the Irvine Open Space Preserve - South which in includes managing the volunteers and the public tours (with the exception of the City events that take place at the Bommer Canyon Cattle Camp). It includes a list of contractual obligations that are monitored annually such as trail maintenance, resource planning, science/stewardship and restoration, fire management, and many other day to day tasks. There are also funds set aside for capital improvements to the area in the form of signage, bridges, gates, trailheads, etc... that have either been approved or are in the planning process. The initial purchase of the Cattle Camp area was made by the City of Irvine; however the other areas were a series of dedications of the areas into the open space preserve as development projects were implemented. With the increasing popularity of Open Space dedications and open space bond initiatives....many cities are finding themselves in similar situations. They dedicate large areas as open space, but don't have the resources to manage them. So many cities across the nation turn to non-profit conservancies to manage the areas. There's nothing strange or conflicting about this, and there are many conservancies across the nation that perform the precise same services. I know that some people look at the developments as some sort of evil empire; however you need to remember that these developments have been planned and approved for decades and are simply being completed in their due time. It is also a fact that the basic footprint of the historical ranch originally had plans to only protect around 10% to 15% of the area as open space and parks. Through the years the philosophy changed and now the historical 93,000 acre ranch footprint has over 50,000 acres permanently protected and cannot be developed. It is held in perpetuity as protected wildlands even though much of it is still privately held property. Also, it is not simply garbage land that could not be developed as I have seen posted in the past. This is prime real estate that has been given over to the wildlands. 37,000 acres also recently gained the recognition as a National Natural Landmard and holds even a higher protection. Much of the land was included in the NCCP as mitigation for development project but not because they were newly created developments. It was because of the general growth in the protective nature of the environmental community that placed a high importance on the habitats that approved developments were impacting. Therefore it now requires developers to mitigate impacts to habit from development to a very high level. It's a very costly and time consuming issue for developers that they have to take seriously. Also there have been some very prime areas dedicated into open space without being required by development impacts. They were gifts to the open space and added to the protected area, and cannot be taken back now that they are included in the NCCP designation and into some conservation easements. People can get as upset as they want about the homes surrounding Aliso-Woods, Laguna Coast, Weir Canyon, and the Irvine Spaces...but these developments have been planned and approved for years, and the development areas were never scheduled to be anything other than what they are....real estate. Bottom line is.....50,000 acres of a 93,000 acre piece of property is a hell of a lot of protected land. Simply look at google map of Orange County and try to find any open space north of the ranch property. The largest area north of this place is Mile Square Park. I've said it before many times......we have it really good here, and you can see how good we have it by simply looking at other areas across the country. I've ridden in areas in Colorado on 22,000 acre parks that only had a couple of 10 to 14 mile loops for mountain bikes. Very nice loops and great trails.......however if you look at the South Coast Wilderness (Aliso-Woods, Laguna Coast, El Moro, and the Irvine Space). They encompass around 20,000 acres and have over 100 miles of trails. Anyone who thinks this particular area is lacking access is someone who clearly cannot be pleased. O.C. has over 700 miles of accessible trails. This is a pretty lucrative area for mountain biking, and there is simply no reason to poach non-sanctioned trails or jump fences. I hope this answers some of the questions.
JamR, that was a fantastic post. I'm glad that the mountain bike community has such a well-spoken and insightful representative. Thanks for your efforts.
Never heard of game cameras ? Classic move to monitor the gates. The guy looking in the lens " huh whats this thingy here ?" .
