I’ve been sitting on this issue for a while now and we were all hoping that the messages being put out to the public on these web-sites, and the number of people we have spoken with in the field would have helped the issue subside; however unfortunately this has not been the case. This is not just a mountain biker problem, but I’m only addressing mountain bikers at this time since this is a biking forum. We have already been handling other user groups in the same manner or by direct contact of the known clubs. I’ve stated it too many times to count that mountain bikers have a lot of control over whether or not they have access to trails. Now with the hot issue going on in P.V. about potentially banning mountain bikes from their trails; it won’t be long until other areas follow suit if they are successful up there. Here’s the problem. It is typically a small percentage of any user group that creates problems for the rest of the group, and it is not limited just to mountain bikers. However there is still fairly large number of riders who seem to be bent on almost assuring that access for bikers be limited of eliminated. Many of us have worked extremely hard to achieve better and more quality access for all user groups in a manner that still protects the habitat and the wildlife. To that end, over the past two years we have added numerous new rides, mountain bike clinics, epic rides, night rides; and have gained the approval of several previously unauthorized trails, and are working on more for the future. However the number of bikers who insist on trespassing or riding unauthorized trails is not subsiding; and unfortunately in some areas is increasing. This is now leading to increased enforcement which has been seen recently in Laguna Coast, and will be seen very shortly in other areas. Many people post here about mixed or unclear messages by the land managers, but this not the case. I’m going to share with everyone three photos that are typical of the more than 500 that we have in our possession from the past three months. There are no mixed messages here since the gates that these riders climbed over had no-less-than four signs telling them that it was not legal to enter the area. Photos like this span all time frames from with riders in the area from 5:00 am to well past 10:00 pm. Land managers all over the area are depending on self-policing and peer pressure to help curb these actions, and especially with the recent fires; if we’re not very careful we could suffer long term losses as a group. Every responsible mountain biker has an obligation to begin effecting some peer pressure on people they see breaking the rules and giving our sport a bad name. If you know any of these riders, please ask them to stop these actions for their own sake and for our sports sake. Heavy enforcement may unfortunately be the next logical step for these issues, which in itself will not garner any increased credibility for our sport. It’s time for the 95% of the good riders to start putting enough pressure on the 5% of the bad riders to simply stop these actions. We have so many great trails and areas to ride, there’s just absolutely no reason to poach closed areas or non-sanctioned trails. If you know any of these riders, have a chat with them. We’re all hoping that peer pressure will start to work so we don’t have to resort to harsher means. Maybe a weekly Wall-Of-Shame post would be a better start as opposed to bringing in heavy law enforcement to start impounding bikes…….hmmmmm :-k
Keep posting pictures. Mayne other riders will recognize them and give there 2 cents. Although they probably don't care.
Actually I'm not.....When there is so much at stake and so much talk about bringing in heavy law enforcement or reducing biking access; it's a much less abusive step. So many positive steps have taken place over the past decade, I would not want to see it go backwards. Please help out but effecting peer pressure within our own group. Once bikers start getting arrested, it will be too late to stop the bad press. We really need everyone's help here. Thanks
I agree, keep posting the photos. It's time we start calling "them" out. I use "them" as others that have no issues with hopping fences.
It would be cool if we could some how manage to create areas that are just for MTB's. There are several areas in Southern California that are set aside for just hikers, or hikers and equestrian use. It is difficult to share trails when our sport is faster, and creates a danger for other groups using the same trails. I will admit that I am an avid hiker and MTB'er. I totally understand both sides of the issue. However, IF I decide to hike, I always hike on trails specifically designated for hiking. This is not to take away from the issue about riding in restricted areas. The state/local government does a lousy job addressing all types of recreation in our local mountains, and the access, or lack of, for MTB'ers is not in our favor. Perhaps if they land was distributed more evenly for all groups, we would not have these problems. I guess the real issue is you can't make all groups happy.
So, giving photographic ammo to groups who want to cut our access AND turning on fellow mountain bikers is a good idea how? ... You realize you're not going to change anyone's behavior through this exercise, don't you? You'll only serve to embolden user groups who already have a dim view of the MTB community. Why not break out a speed gun, too, and start calling riders out for going over the 15 mph speed limit designated for most multi-use trails? Good god, man.
I disagree. I'm not advocating poaching but putting people's pic's up on the internet crosses the line. Not cool. This is not the answer. C
the antithesis to this would be to post pictures of the people to 'look out for' on the trails snapping pix....still not cool....kinda reminds me of cameras at intersections...
I hope they can get some good shots of me riding. The only action shots I have are usually on my DH bike, and I want more XCish pictures for my collection. Just kidding. I'm not a poacher. Poser yes, poacher no. But I wholeheartedly understand the reason why people poach. As Craig said. Posting pictures of offenders is out of line. This isn't that TV show "Cheaters."
So posting pics of the 5% of riders that poach is going to somehow stop these riders from poaching? i don't see how that works. No matter what the activity there is always a small percentage that is going to go against the mainstream and do as they please. We run into the same issues w/ OHV motorcycles, jetski's, etc. There's always a mainstream fighting to offset what the minority is invaribly going to do.
Definitely not the answer, but one of the next logical steps prior to full blown enforcement. I sit in too many meetings where people want bikes banned from the areas. And when the number of photos are increasing, the amount of trail cutting has gone up, and people brought herbicide down into protected areas to make it easier to kill off the vegetation (all common knowledge within all the land management groups, and managing environmental agencies). It's a very minor thing to post a few photos to hopefully embarass a few people and raise awarness. I can tell you that land managers across the board are getting frustrated and something needs to change for the sake of our sport. I understand you do not like the photos. Could you give me some alternate suggestions to curb these riders? Nothing else has worked so far, so the next step is to effect peer pressure. Land managers are in a lose/lose situation here. If they don't take steps to curb these actions, they are chastized by the agencies for not managing the area. If they bring in enforcement, they are blasted by the user groups for being heavy handed. A picture is worth a thousand words, and putting up a few photos occaisionally to let people know that the areas are being actively managed is a small price for these riders to pay. None of these actions have come without years of pre-warnings by all of the land managing agencies. No agency has the staff to simply sit out there 24/7 to wait for these people; so if the word at least gets out there that they are being seen regardless if they were not caught, and the amount of tresspassing decreases; then it worked. Would you rather have posted pictures, or citations? These riders are clearly braking the law and from the videos are clearly aware of the cameras. This is not just bikers either. Hikers, Runners and Dog Owners are also being contacted and in some cases to a greater degree. Equestrians have not been a huge issue yet but probably because they can't lift their horses over the gates. The bottom line is that we have seen almost a four fold increase in trespassing since the fires, so something needed to happen. If people don't like the photo's; the're certainly not going to be happy with the next logical steps. Again......we have complete control over our actions and over our access. These riders intentionally came into an area that is very sensitive right now since it is one of the wildlife refuges from the recent fires, and the animals there need to have some space to recover. When the amount trespassing begins to exceed the amount of legal public access....something has to be done, otherwise we all lose. Look at the fervor over the Cleveland Forest right now. If gates, signs and cameras cannot curb trespassing; how can the CNF possibly control the amount of non-sanctioned trails that will be showing up in their area. I don't think they had any choice but to close the entire area.
I agree, but when the 95% lose access due to the actions of the 5%...no one will be happy. This is simply a step to try to get the 95% to step up to the plate and get involved. There's too much complacency within our sport locally and there's too much to lose. We have too many positive things happing now to allow the 5% the effect the progress. Why would we want to protect the 5% from a little embarrassment? Like I said...these are only 3 photos of over 500 in the past few months and the numbers are increasing; and the managing agencies are well aware of the numbers. If we don't start taking some steps ourselves (even if it's a little unpleasant or embarrassing), then shortly others will take more drastic steps for us. No one wants to lose access locally.
All of these problems, I am selling my bikes and getting a horse. Then maybe I can find harmony. Dean
The decision to post a few pic's was not made lightly and was done with some discussion, and was done because the problem is real and is impacting our access. Simply adding mountain bike programs to an area should not be an uphill battle, but too often it is. Posting these pics was a decision made in lieu of much harsher steps. If we were losing trails left and right locally, I could understand the frustration, but we're not losing access yet. I think we are very fortunate to have so many trails of varying levels to enjoy (much more than many areas). Hopefully a little embarrasment will work and some peer pressure will kick in so harsher enforcement will not be necessary. I'm not super thrilled with having to post the photos, but let's keep in perspective what you see in the photos. A gate coming into a private area with six separate signs that state as such, and also give the information of how to access the area legally. Also riders coming into the area less than a day after a legal public ride took place where they could have enjoyed the trails legally. Like I indicated earlier......we've been able to increase mountain bike access to these areas in a responsible manner, and have added numerous new rides, bike clinics, night rides, 40 mile rides, and as of December will start using the Black Star Staging area for some 25 mile loops that encompass Black Star and Fremont Canyon. For the first time ever, the City of Irvine Area has allowed self-guided mountain biking, and has approved 5 new single-tracks to the area, etc..... There's so much good taking place locally, that there's simply no reason for actions such as you see in these photo's. And actions like these have made the increased access successes that much more difficult to achieve. Just start putting some peer pressure to help out the land managers; but also if you start to see harsher enforcement or loss of access; please place the blame where it belongs........on the shoulders of these types of riders. I'm all open to suggestions of how to curb these riders. Does anyone have any suggestions?
