Anyone else see what just happened here? http://www.socaltrailriders.org/for...ew-marzocchi-55-r-160mm-200-a.html#post656016 I have a feeling this won't be the last bump/change type post you see. Just something to consider as we change over to the new format.
One other thing worth mentioning is the perceptual difference between donations and fees. When a site provides a great service, and needs help in the form of voluntary donations to be able to continue providing such a service, people tend to want to put up that money and help out. Certainly, my personal plans call for supporting STR with a donation when I am once again employed full time --or when I land another web contract. Not bad for someone who just joined two months ago. But when I see that the site has enacted a means to fund itself via fees from classified sales, then I feel less inclined to support it. Ironic, isn't it, considering STR is offering such sales free of charge to members who make a donation? The law of unintended consequences rears its head. The thing is that this fee structure creates a retailer-consumer wall between me and STR in the same way that there is one between eBay and I. Now my attitude can change to one of, "Well, they have a business model based on collecting fees from classified ads, they obviously know how much to charge based on supply-demand analysis. No donations to a business should ever be even worth considering." Would you donate to Ralph's supermarket if they asked for it? If you love them enough you'd tell them to charge more or find a way to cost less to run. So suddenly, if I can get away with only paying $1.25 the 3 times a year I might choose to put something up for sale, well that's a good deal better for me than $30. And for anyone who posts stuff for sale more than 24 times a year, it becomes better to "buy a seller's account" for $30. Yes, like it or not, that's what the doohickey suddenly represents under this paradigm: that one has paid to have an STR seller's account and can post as much for sale as he or she likes for one year. I know all that's not 100% true. I know STR needs our help. And I know it provides a fun and invaluable service. But still, with this change, a different paradigm has been breached and a wall has started to go up. I couldn't blame anyone who came to see it as a classified driven venture.
Thread has been edited. There will be a transition period moving to the new system so please be patient. I can tell you in all honesty there was no way the existing Marketplace forum could have continued as it was. The wheels were about to fall off.
I'm Good With It I have no problem with a small fee for those who choose not support STR. I am amazed at the quality of this web site and the service it provides. As for those who find $30 too much, well how much did you spend at your last trip to the path? Please keep up the good work STR! :clap: :clap: :clap:
ignoring the banter above, good idea / bad idea, how does it work? i check the tab and "started" to a sale process just to see the mechanics. Not currently selling anything so didnt clicky nuthin seems fairly logicalbut didnt see how we pay the fee? do we have to set up an account like ebay. will it be dinged to the paypal account. will you send Chris SarBoats aka bone crusher our to collect all proceeds. again just did a quick check and am sure i missed something but wondering. also what are rules. what is process, will it appear in front page, can we bump, etc. maybe a Q&A would be helpful (or i could be the only 'tard here). and for my 2 centavos (or $1.50) as the case may be. rather not pay a fee but no real issues here, this is a free f'n market. georges board, georges f'n rules. it peeps dont see the value then they wont use. if worth it george gets to buy himeslf a new weezer snuggie for x-mas. yay george
How about if the classifieds are free to long time members? So like if you have a 1,000 thanks then the classifieds are free. This would provide free classifieds to those people that use the site for what it is intended for, but occasionally want to clear the junk out of their garage. Alternatively, you could give people one free classified posting for every 100 thanks they receive.
isnt it about time u started listening to you dad. he is cool with it. now go to your room with no dinner
People around here are starting to think something is wrong with me when I start laughing at my desk, thanks Adam :beer:
This seems like a fantastic suggestion. Though, maybe 2000+ is a better number? That kind of rule shows appreciation for members who really make STR worth visiting for us noobs. Yes, George and the mods pour their hearts and soul into this board, but all that hard work is for naught without a community supported by loyal contributors and wise elders. 'sides, most people who've achieved that level of thanks are often already paying for a subscription. So no big financial loss here but a great win as a gesture. Plus, when people need to sell stuff, it might mean money is tight for them and they just can't afford that $30 subsc for another month or two.
Sorry, but :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Aren't there about 9000 members now? So would this invite-only plan involve kicking out the lurkers and others who don't make any meaningful contributions? That would leave about 300 people. Or maybe, just de-register everyone who signed up prior to 2007 so the site can go back to what it was in the glory days. :-k As this site continues to grow it will probably continue to lose the close knit feel. If people could be respectful in their posts and use reasoned discussion rather than spewing unsubstantiated opinions, that would go along way to keeping things positive here. But this is the internet, so that's asking a lot, I know. Can we also put a fee on: - being too lazy or inept to search and then posting a topic that has already been discussed 100s of times - posting stupid questions like whether a certain brand of chain will make you ride faster #-o - posting ride reports with no photos - any other thread that is generally useless like what Jeff linked above If a fee cannot be implemented, at least let us heckle them into submission!
In short, not a fan of it. In longer form...I'd like to think I've added value to this forum through the technical information I've offered. Although some accuse me of being a "know-it-all" well...I've had a lot of experience with bikes and riding (and for the record, I don't know it all ). I've offered plenty of bike technical advice as well as riding advice. Unlike many others who offer advice with the intent of attracting customers to their business, I am not in the bike business. The value of a forum is based on its participants. The more the user's questions get answered, the more value people will see in it. And I feel that I've added value to this forum. On the other side, I've left forums where my questions weren't answered or were answered by people who really didn't know. I agree with most of calzone's comments, so I won't repeat those again. But I will emphasize again that I'll support a community, but I won't support a business that doesn't give back. I felt that the information I offered was returned with the ability to post free ads. Over the last couple months, as this site has seen more useless and often questionable moderation than I've ever seen before on any other forum and the rumor that this pay-ads were coming soon, I've tapered off offering information. When mtbr went to the pay-ads, the sales of items dropped off significantly. I don't know if the same will apply here. Like calzone mentioned, I won't bother taking the risk of spending the money to risk not selling a sub $50 part. If I were to take the risk, I may as well go to mtbr where there is a larger audience. Although, most of the stuff I've sold here was to buyers from other parts of the country who found the ad doing a google search. Since I have a lot of non-bike stuff, I may as well get going on ebay, anyway. If the pay-ads are what had to be done, so be it. George had to do what he had to do. That's obviously his call. My call will be to do what I have to do. That will likely be to continue reducing my participation here and sell my wares on ebay. Now, in my opinion (right or wrong), is that this is no longer a true community but instead, it's a business. And with having to pay to place ads, I don't see me getting much of a return anymore.
. I liked the market place, because it was local and it was with people who we ride with and they usually put what they had laying around, there were some posts that were from people who in my opinion looked like they were selling to make a living. I still can't understand why some people had slightly used highend parts for sale all the time on here. I understand the I upgraded to this and need to sell the old item, but if you have 5 sets of thomson seatpost for sale and xtr this and that slightly used. then the classified system should be implemented. On the other hand, paying a fee with ebay, its going to sell and people from all the 50 states will see your ad. Now If I pay $1.50 is it going to sell? if no one wants my item, or I live to far for pickup then I would be a little upset, also since the person selling paid $1.50 does that guarantee me of having a secure transaction? I just liked the marketplace since people posted what they had laying around, and it was in southern california and when they came to pick it up or I came to get there part, we usually chatted a little about bicycles. i would put items on just to see if someone was interested, if not I would just keep it around, now if I paid $1.50 for that item... it better sell and for a good price to.
That's what I liked about the Marketplace as well. If they were too far for me to drive to, I didn't bother. .
I sell most of my stuff on MTBR and/or Ridemonkey, and I don't mind paying the fee. I don't bother to list anything on STR unless I want to 1) sell it to friends or 2) sell it really, really cheap. As with all "free" sites, they grow and then fees need to be charged and stricter rules and regulations need to be implemented. Do you think that George does all the work behind the scene on STR for free? What about paying for disk space and web hosting? Is it okay for you to post/house your photos and expect unlimited disk space for free?? You guys are delusional!!! :lol: I guess you could always go start your own MTB website like many others have done.......
I agree with Mr. Epic, the "wheels were coming off..." "Something" needed to be done! Lee brought-up some very good points! MANY MANY MANY STR members have grown quite resentful that STR has turned into a cost effective (i.e. free) way for people to make money/promote themselves/promote their blogs/promote their bike shops etc... I find it quite funny that our members are being asked to pay $2 per sale ad (I don't mind) while others are making thousands/tens-of-thousands off our members at little cost to themselves... :-k Still like the idea of the (25) post minimum
Don't want to be a broken record, beat a dead horse, or monopolize this thread. This should be the last point I need to make on the topic: Even as a 'consumer', who doesn't pay the $1.50 (not directly at least), I have reservations about this policy, especially with regard to sales by long time loyal members. I trust products offered for sale by long time loyal members, who aren't seeking to run a business but simply looking to hand down stuff to others and mitigate their losses. It's healthy recycling. There's a story behind their products, there's a personal connection and care. There's a friend you make when you meet the seller and exchange cash for the product. I don't trust the products offered for sale on here by people who are doing it in any kind of professional capacity or who are seeking to optimize profit vs cost and risk or whatever. I can go to ebay for that. I feel like this policy will reduce the 'trustworthiness' --the provenance-- of stuff for sale, and reduce the overall variety and spontaneity of the stuff available. I fear there will be fewer items for sale by their original owners, and many more who don't bother trying to sell something like an incomplete box of spokes, a pair of gloves that didn't fit, a crank without the chainrings, a wheelset or headset for trade because the color or model was slightly not what they needed. Etc. I would say that money concerns, no matter how trivial they seem to some, are the wrong reason someone should avoid posting something for sale here, yet that is what will happen. Yes, we want to keep people from selling stuff if they have no vested interest in the community, but that has nothing to do with willingness to pay for permission to run a classified. While many of those we DO want posting ads will think twice, those who care nothing about the site or the people will think nothing of paying the small price of $1.50 to run their ad before a captive and targeted audience. In short, I fear an unintended effect will be to water down the value and selection of items we can find for sale (not to mention for trade!) here.
I agree with what Lee and many other have said: a website is just a website and it is the member who makes STR.......well STR. The fact that we heckle each other on the forums(market place included) is the fact that we are friends and community. In fact if I see people making fun of someone on a market place thread(in a friendly way) then it shows he or she is well know and liked or disliked actually shows the credibility of the seller.....a value to me. All of sudden heavy handed moderation kicks in and no one can say a word is rather uncomfortable to say the least. There are way to "fix" market forum but to my observation money seems to be the primary reason for the change. Now I'm not saying website hosting is free and such but if this turns into a business then it would become no value to me and many others. If the owner of the site want to keep the site free and non-profit then we all can suggest ways to do that. If the owner wants to make money like MTBR then best of luck.....it is his site. Just my 2 pennies........ As many of you have known I've sold thousands of dollars of bike stuff to fellow members at very low price even though I would lose tons of money. I like someone then I would give them a great deal. Oh yeah I have noticed the absents of many many old time members that I know well......Lee is a very good example. Granted the technical discussion is great and all but I do know how to use google. It is the people here I know and met through the years makes me check it every day......to see them disappear is truly sad.
Holy crap! You guys have been listening to Glenn Beck again, haven't you? Howzabout everybody just chills for a bit on the "what ifs," "I'm afraids," "could bes," and "maybes," and gives the new setup an actual chance to work or fail? Sheesh, like a bunch of cackling hens around here. Had to launch this during the first storm in months, didn't you, George #-o:lol:
IMHO, these fees should be for advertisers, not normal users (private sellers). here is an example from another forum: http://zilvia.net/advertise.html
