Whiting Trail Work - I don't get it

Discussion in 'Trail Conditions' started by no worries, Jul 12, 2010.

  1. no worries

    no worries Member

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    Can anyone explain what the plan is with the current Whiting Ranch trail work?

    Cactus has been torn up. Just about every turn has been tilled into a sand-pit. It's been a week and it's as soft as ever, even with the lucky drizzle. Is this type of trail work a good idea in July?

    All the braking bumps/holes are still present though. Maybe they filled them in with the soft dirt, but it's quickly been dragged out again. Combine the loose braking bumps preceding sand-pit turns and you have riders washing out right on top of each other.

    The "trail work in progress" sign is gone, so I guess they're done? What's the objective here?

    The work extended into Sleepy Hollow with a few soft turns showing up. They even removed the big bump right before you climb out onto the fire road. Wasn't that a pair of beefy roots? Surely they didn't cut out the roots?

    They also took a truck and weed wacker up the climb from Cactus to Vulture. It was such a pretty double track gone single track climb last week, now it's a loose-rock fire road again. But I'm guessing that was necessary as a fire break?

    Anyhow, honestly asking if someone with some trail work experience can explain what the purpose of the recent work is?

    My best guess is they hoped it would get compacted quickly and net a faster, wider, smoother descent? Or maybe this is just better for the horses.
     
  2. TsukubaSteve

    TsukubaSteve Keepin IT real

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    I noticed the missing roots just before the fire road this weekend also. I noticed it because I actually made it up the climb this time, and then thought "hey wasn't there something back there before?" I'd hope they didn't just cut out the roots...

    I'm new to Whiting so I didn't know there was trail work going on, but it explains some of why Cactus is the way it is. Like you said, lots of sand on every turn and huge holes before most turns. It makes for a challenging ride, but I wouldn't say I don't enjoy it.

    I'm curious too, what are the future plans for Whiting?
     
  3. genusmtbkr5

    genusmtbkr5 STR Moderator

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    I don't know anything about any trail work done recent by SHARE. Cactus was "adopted" by SHARE as Cattle Pond was by the Trail Angels. Any trail work done on Cactus was probably done by the Park Rangers is my guess. It's never good to do tread work when the soil is so dry IMHO cause it just doesn't get a chance to hold together. You can contact Whiting here: Contact Us

    Address it to Attn: Vicky Malton, she's the head Ranger in Limestone/Whiting. Maybe she could shed some light to your questions
    .

    BTW, I moved the thread to the "trail conditions" sub forum.
     
  4. Sl0wM0tion

    Sl0wM0tion New Member

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    Yup they ruined Cactus #-o.
    I think they are just trying to slow me Down :-k!

    But I can't complain cuz they always do a good job clearing the trails.
     
  5. ladera Dave

    ladera Dave New Member

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    I did run into a fallen tree last week. Let us know when the trail work will start.
     
  6. kioti

    kioti Active Member

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    I don't understand the question.
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    I spent a lot of time over two winters installing those berms on Cactus, Sage Scrub and Sleepy Hollow. Now I can't even bear to look after the 'work' that was done last week.

    When I asked the Ranger about it, she said she had a crew out doing some "repair" work. I asked if the trail could be watered down and compacted, but she said that was against environmental protocol.

    The failure of tread work done in dry conditions in Whiting has been obvious since the original reroute of Sage Scrub before the fire. That project was done AFTER the last rain of the season, turned to powder immediately, and stayed powdery until it was rained on and reshaped.

    Tread work done with moist clay soil can be shaped and compacted. It gets very hard once it dries out, and holds up remarkably well to foot and bicycle traffic. In fact, bike use during the curing phase can help to smooth and pack it.

    Other than breaking bumps, which also need to be repaired when the soil is moist, the banking and berms held up well to foot, bike and horse traffic. The hope was they would stay in place until ground cover grew back to protect them. Unfortunately, there was no way to protect them from poorly thought-out trail work.
     
  7. Pain Freak

    Pain Freak Dead or Alive

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    Not that I'm an expert but I've read the IMBA book on trail building along with a few books that were recommended by the USFS and I'm very surprised how little a lot of rangers know of trail work. Don't get me wrong, most do know how a trail should be built but there are still quite a few who have no idea. Some were putting waterbars on a trail that had a natural run off. I asked them why and they said, they thought it'd be a good idea. They were doing exactly what the book recommended they NOT do.
     
  8. snownow

    snownow Too slow

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    I will agree it is very very loose, be careful if you have not ridden it in a while. If you go ripping in the first turn like people normally do, you risk getting sucked in to the soft dirt. I have seen quite a few people go down this last week. The sign got moved as well to the first turn off (sleepy hollow?) , and now looks like it was tossed in the scrub :( I was hoping for a little rain last week... but nothing showed.

    It looks like we will have to just slow down on the top section and suffer with it, with the scorcher rolling in late this week.
     
  9. Mongo

    Mongo Chewyeti "MongOHNO!"

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    I can't believe that it's against "environmental protocol" to water and compact. Compacted soil is less likely to erode. OK. I can believe it's their protocol, but it doesn't make any sense.
     
  10. kioti

    kioti Active Member

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    I don't understand the question.
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    I couldn't take hearing the reports and not checking the trail, especially after writing about it, so I rode it this evening. I won't say its "ruined," but if it was relatively packed before the work was done, then they didn't do it any favors.

    The upper turns are the most effected. I remember seeing three volunteers working those turns a few months ago, and they did a great job. Now they're pretty powdery. As mentioned, all the braking bumps are still there, so both the turns and the straights are hurting.

    Sleepy Hollow is 'OK,' and Sage Scrub (which doesn't look like its been worked on) is in pretty good shape-- at least good enough that I was able to ride UP it.

    For comparison, I rode up the STT and down the Luge, where little or no tread work has been done since the rainy season. Even with all the bike traffic, and recovering form the same fire as Whiting, there was very little powdering of the tread.

    My point is that the soils, ground cover and seasons dictate appropriate times to do various types of work on trails. Mistakes will be made, but should be learned from. My experience tells me that this is a good time of year to clear loose rock from a trail, and cut back brush as needed. But its a bad time to disturb the soil unless you can wet it, and the base soil, enough to get adhesion and compaction.
     
  11. no worries

    no worries Member

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    Well I wrote Vic and she responded very quickly. Unfortunately she didn't have much to offer. I shouldn't quote her, as I don't think she intended the quick email to be public, but she basically called this "tread work"(?) and said budget and available crew dictated it be done now. She also said the 10mph speed limit should counter any safety concerns I have, though I honestly think those turns are safe at about 5mph, tops.

    What I was really looking for was the *intent* of these "trail improvements" so I think I'll follow-up again.

    I get the feeling these were equestrian improvements, since many of the tight spots were made wider (by digging into berms and such).
     
  12. kioti

    kioti Active Member

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    I don't understand the question.
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    According to the Ranger, Cactus and Sleepy Hollow Trails are supposed to be wide enough to accommodate a 4-wheeled rescue vehicle known as a "Mule." Its an ATV with the capacity to carry a stretcher and is operated by the fire department. I'd guess thats why the trails were widened.

    Isn't it ironic that the trails were possibly widened for safety purposes while becoming more likely to cause injury because of the removal of berms and all the loose dirt in the turns?
     
  13. Waldo

    Waldo Lebowski Urban Achiever

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    I'm glad to see that posted for public consumption. We often complain about heavy use leading to unintended trail widening (Xhuskr & I were just talking about Cholla the other day). At least in this case we know the reason for the widening, and it isn't us!
     
  14. Brewtal

    Brewtal Squirrel Whisperer

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    I want to start by saying that I am in NO way attacking anyone posting their disdain of trail conditions after trail work has been done, I promise.
    That said, I feel that being disappointed with the results of trail work should be motivation to volunteer your time, and especially your MTB oriented mind/imagination, to trail work being done in your area.
    I recently volunteered for trail work being done locally and while there were a fair number of folks that turned out for the work, a very small percentage were MTB riders. As a result, the trail was left predominately in "hiking condition." In other words, the nice sweeping and fun lines were gone and little attention was given to how flowy the trail would be for riding afterward.
    I also met the SWECO (Mini bulldozer) operator later on in the day and the fellow was definitely, and admittedly, not a MTB rider. Thus, as he ripped up the terrain, there was no thought being given to preserving nor providing a fun flowing descent or the previously challenging climb.
    The sad part is that, following the trail work, I read a lot of complaints here on STR from folks upset with the condition of the trail but yet none of the authors was out there with a shovel or McCleod. Someone had asked how I heard about the trail work being done, "On SoCaltrailriders" I replied. "Oh, cool! How many of you are here?" Only two hands went up, mine included. I was a little embarrassed, honestly.
    Again, my point is not to attack anyone here. As a MTB rider myself, I am completely with you! I am saddened that an absolute favorite trail of mine was altered from it's previously awesome state. However, a large majority of us are blessed with some outstanding trails in our areas that we ride, for the most part, for free and it is definitely in our interest to see that the numbers of MTB riders involved in the planning, funding, and execution of trail work increases. We can not rely on the parks to go in and clear brush and manicure our favorite trails leaving behind ultimate singletrack. It's simply not their objective. Thus, it is our responsibility to support MTB oriented organizations and clubs that are working together with parks to see that more input from MTB voices are heard and carried out.

    Please, do not use the "I pay taxes" argument here. I invited a friend of mine to the trail work that day and that was his reply. I wanted to sock him. In the minds of the folks that are doing the work with our tax dollars, everything you have seen has been a "job well done." The small percentage of trails we are permitted to ride are not MTB specific trails. They are multi-use trails for official vehicles, hikers, equestrians, and at the bottom of the list are "those mountain bike people." We are simply not on the list of priorities. So, again, it is up to us to step it up!
    Get involved, even if only financially, with organizations with the objective to see riding conditions improved and trail use expanded. Take a day off from riding to pick up a shovel and give back, in person, to the trails that have given us so much!
    A short list of groups that come to mind:
    (PLEASE feel free to add more!)

    WWW.IMBA.COM

    WWW.CORBAMTB.COM

    WWW.SHAREMTB.COM


    WWW.MULTIUSE.ORG

    The old saying "If you want something done right, ya gotta do it yourself!" definitely applies here! If we don't do it, non-riders will. And neither you, nor your bike, will not like the results.
     
  15. dwrads

    dwrads Member

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    I'd guess that 90% of the trail work performed in the park under discussion here is done by mountain bikers...
     
  16. MohammedInABearSuit

    MohammedInABearSuit Sticks and Stones...

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    Is this the case with ALL the County trails? If so, then it explains a lot.... from the widening of "single track" to why poached trails seem to stay narrow and more pristine.

    One wonders if these policies aren't becoming counter-productive...
     
  17. snownow

    snownow Too slow

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    I just rode it today at lunch, any one notice the little side trail added at the end of borrego, just before it hits mustard? Breaks off to the left and connects to the stream bed.. Odd. I say if we are going to alter trails we should add some trees or giant umbrellas along mustard... was blood hot today. :) j/k

    To keep with the thread theme, my only concern at the moment is the top three turns. I sat and watch several riders just slam on the breaks and skid around the turns today, or try to high side the turn and ride off trail on the edge. Give a few weeks and its going to go from flat and loose to the grand canyon and loose. :(
     
  18. Rumpled

    Rumpled Longtime Newb

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    MULE accessible single tracks makes a good oxymoron.
    Do they ever retrieve people by MULE?
    I wouldn't want that ride.
    I think they pretty much extract by helo. It's the more expensive toy.
     
  19. kioti

    kioti Active Member

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    I don't understand the question.
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    Thanks for your passion, Brewtal.

    In Whiting Ranch, mountain bikers have done a huge amount of the trail work, and have adopted various trails (as Gene said). That includes Cactus. I would hope that because of the commitment and expertise of these groups, they would be informed ahead of time of the need for various types of work, and given the chance to handle it. There are, in fact, tool boxes in several locations so riders can work on trails without having to carry the tools in from the parking lots.

    Having discussed the various restrictions and guidelines on allowable types of maintenance with Ranger Vicky, the solutions are often limited. This can be frustrating for both the managing authority and the volunteers who strive to keep the trails in good shape.

    As for mountain bikers who volunteer to do trail work-- the percentage is low, but the amount of overall work is huge. The Warrior Society takes care of most of the trails in the National Forest, and SHARE does a large amount of work in the county parks. Other groups and individuals help, too. Its important that riders are involved in so much of this work because trail maintenance has evolved from the days of hikers and horseback riders. We and the trails benefit from rounder, banked and bermed corners, and compacted soil for sustainability and to make climbing possible, along with the use of fewer water bars and other old-fashioned solutions.

    Cactus was rerouted after the fire, and Sleepy Hollow's designation was changed to allow bikes. It was evident early on that out-sloped corners were a poor design for those trails, especially with the lack of brush to channel riders. I went in and systematically banked and bermed as many turns as I could on those trails, along with Sage Scrub. Then I lined them with rocks and branches to help guide riders and allow the brush to grow back to the trail's edge. Some 'lines' were altered to match original layout with actual use patterns. IMO, cyclists have been very good about staying on the trails.

    I was surprised to learn that some singletrack would need to be kept wide enough for passage by a motorized rescue vehicle. That seems to contradict the designation as a "wilderness" park. But that's how they want it-- and if it saves someone's life, who am I to argue.

    The detour on Borrego is a reroute in progress by the Ranger, in order to avoid a section of trail she feels will eventually be lost due to erosion.

    To answer Mark-- I would prefer most singletrack start narrow, and stay that way. What's wrong with a little self-rescue once in awhile? I think it builds character.
     
  20. MohammedInABearSuit

    MohammedInABearSuit Sticks and Stones...

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    I wholeheartedly agree.
    Trails never get narrower ;) To start widening any trail is plain crazy IMHO.
     

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