Tubeless vs Tube(merged/sticky)

My initial question on 4/23 @ 6:23A about Kenda tires was referring to their use with Stan's.

Regarding the wierd problem - I'm running the same Mavic 217's since 1995. I've never had this kind of problem, ever. I'm currently running standard Specialized tubes. Not the super thin Turbo, just the standard thin. Maybe it's caused by too much talcum powder, or talcum on the bead. I'm now running the lowest pressures I've ever run, so maybe it's easier for the tire to spin on the rim. I always center the valve with the label on the tire, and haven't noticed if it has moved. I need to mark the tire in relation to the rim and see if the tire itself is spinning.

I'd like to convert to Stan's, but I don't know what to think about the use of the sealant with Kenda's.

 

Yeah I know what you've probably read about using Stans with Kenda tires. I've been using it for a good year now and have had ZERO issues with it. I think as long as you don't let the sealant just sit in one spot you'll be ok. You'll probably spend enough on tubes throghout a year to just get new tires once a year anyway if you're really worried about it. I've converted a few members on here into using Stans and they are all very satisfied.

 

I would be one of those guys. The ride w/o tubes is a lot more supple has better traction. By the time the sealant eats away your Kendas (if it even does) your treads will be worn. I have no experience with the rimstrips but they work fine on 819's.

 

I've also dranken the Kool-Aid, I just got sick of pinch-flatting. I feel much more confident now going over rocks and other obstacles knowing that pinch-flatting is not an option anymore...I think everyone I've ridden with has waited for me at least once because of a pinch-flatted rear.

 

Every time I park the bike, the sealant will sit in one place. Let's just say I'll only be able to ride once week, would that a problem?

*exit to garage to check valve stem*
*return to laptop on couch*

OK, I just checked out the tire. It appears the tire is actually slipping on the rim. I had the valve stem centered between the two words "Blue Groove", and now the stem is centered on the word "Groove". This means the tire is spinning on the rim when I am braking. Again, this is something I have never experienced ever. I did just recently switch to the Kenda Blue Groove and the Nevegal, but I don't think I experienced this problem on my first run on the front tire. I'm hoping a good cleaning of the interior wall of the rim and bead of the tire with denatured alcohol, and then being extra careful to keep the talcum off those surfaces, would keep this from happening.

However, this brings up a possible problem when converting to Stan's. One of two things will happen. The rubber strip and the sealant will lock the tire to the rim, or the tire will continue to spin on the rim and unsealing the bead to the strip.

 

Even if you only ride the bike once a week you can go out to the garage and spin your tires at least once in between. But really I don't think that is even necessary being that I have 4 bikes, 3 of them converted to Stans and obviously I don't ride all of them every week so they just sit for longer than a week and I haven't had any issues.

There is no chance that your brake pads are coming into contact with the sidewalls under dynamic conditions is there? Either way I think that problem would go away once you converted to Stans. The bead sort of "glues" itself to the rim strip and I really don't see it spinning on your rim after that.

 

No contact at all. I've put enough miles on the tire that I would have destroyed the sidewall if that were the case.

Either way, I'm saving for a new wheelset so I can run disc brakes, but that's a different thread.

UPDATE -

I cleaned the bead and inner wall of the rim with denatured alcohol. Same story. Is it because I'm running too low of pressure? The gauge on the pump says somewhere around 30 to 32 psi.

 

Maxxis Tubeless rim strip

Hey guys

I use to be a fan of Stan's No-tube kit....well I'm still kinda is. But those rubber rim strips cost 25 bucks each? They can't possibly cost that much to make. So I found this $5 dollar rim strip from Maxxis and guess what they are way better!!!! Don't get me wrong I still use stan's sealant but I'm running Maxxis rim strips now.

Here are the reasons why:
Cheaper..wait make that wwwaayyy cheaper. $5 compare to $25 \\/
It rises over the rim so extra rim protection
it has it's own bead hooks to get better sealing action so it inflates really easy and a lot faster than Stan's rim strip.
Because it seals better the tire is less likely to POP off the rim.
Works a lot better on narrow rims...717..317..dt4.1
Did I mention it's only 5 buck per wheel?:lol:

Make sure you get the right size for your rim.

 

Tubeless vs Tube

Was riding with a buddy the other day and he told me he recently converted his tires to tubeless. This got me thinking, what's the difference? I would think riding with a tube would be much better because if you get a flat you can swap it out with another one.

My buddy was trying to convince me other wise, but he didn't really sell me on it. So, I figured I would open it up to the general riding community. If you could let me know your thoughts,suggestions that'd be great.

 

I have been riding my DT5.1 wheels with navagel tires for a year now and no flats. The beauty of tubeless is if you ever do have a major snafu on the trail, you can remove the tubeless stem and throw in a back up tube to get you back home. I will never go back to tubes as a primary source.

 

aside from buying tires that are tubeless, do you have to do anything special? Can I just strip my tire of it's tube and start pumping it up?

 

Pree sure you need some Stan's Sealant and Tubeless ready rims.

 

Tubes are heavy and expensive.

Tubes are a joke, you are much better off spending $50 on a jug of snake oil and watching it bubble out the seams and spoke holes of your rims. Sure you have to air it up from 5psi every time you ride, it dries out and leaves lumpy imbalanced deposits all over both inner and outer channels, and if you ride on some remotely technical trail the thin kevlar hook bead of your tire will burp free and spray you with goo on your way over the handle bars. You will totally save lots of cash and frustration converting some stock wheels and clearance rack tires to get all the advantages of a $1k wheel set for less than a C-note. I mean why would anyone throw money away on quality high end parts?:?:

 

I am a firm believer in tubeless if done CORRECTLY. All the benefits far outweigh the negatives.

Tubeless:
Pros:
1. No pinch flats because there are no tubes to pinch
2. Flat protection from punctures if used in conjunction with sealant like Stan's
3. Better traction since you can run lower tire pressures

Cons:
1. Higher initial cost to get set up
2. May be difficult to inflate and get the bead to seat sometimes

With regular tubed tires, unless you buy tubes with sealant in them, you get one puncture and it's time to pull over for a repair. Tubes with sealant are usually heavy and expensive. With tubeless and sealant you just continue riding none the worse for wear. With tubeless, if you don't use sealant, you can still fix a flat the same as with a regular tubed system. Pull out the foreign object and put a tube in there, inflate and you're off.

If you are an aggressive rider and prefer running lower pressures to increase traction, you run the risk of pinch flats with tubes. No such problem with tubeless since there are no tubes to pinch. Lower pressures (within reason) will also offer lower rolling resistance on uneven ground.

There is nothing a tubed setup will do better than a tubeless setup. The only advantage tubed setups have is initial cost. Tubeless still has a price premium to get started. I think the price will be offset in the long run due to cost of tubes though.

I run tubeless on all my bikes from an XC hardtail to an 8" DH bike and will never go back. I have never once had a flat. I've been on several rides where I've pulled out at least five thorns from each of my tires. All that happened was I got a bit of sealant squirt out as it sealed the holes. Now try that on a tubed system.

You will hear opponents of tubeless system complain about tires burping and blowing off the rims. I would say anecdotal evidence of these occurences are MOSTLY due to human error. You'll see that they are either not using a true UST rim or a non UST tire. If you want a trouble free experience stick to UST rims and UST tires with sealant.

One thing to note is that tubeless ready is not the same as UST. UST is the true tubeless standard. Tubeless ready requires the use of other additional elements to make them tubeless whether it be sealant or rim strips. UST tires and rims have special bead interfaces which more or less locks the tire on to the rim under sufficient tire pressures.

I'm not saying that it is entirely impossible for a true UST system to fail, but it is very unlikely if set up correctly. Regular tubed setups are not immune to the same issues as tubeless systems either. There are many tails of tires blowing off tubed sytems even here on STR so it happens.
:beer:

 

:-k why cant we just have a TUBELESS vs TUBE sticky on WORKSHOP? We see this question almost once a month :?: just a thought

 

Surprised it has not been merged already

Can't we go a week without explaining the search button?

:welcome: newb. And no you wont need anything special, just dump the tube and pump it up.

 

My suggestion is to click the SEARCH button. This topic has been discussed extensively here.

 

:lol:


here's a scenario between tube vs tubeless.

Last Sunday, me and my friend did Sunset Ridge in San Gabe. this trail has claimed a lot of tubes due to rocks, both sharp and chunky. I was on Tubeless, he was tubed. He had 30+ Psi on his tires, I had less than 20psi.

I could literally hear my rim smack on the rocks and give out a ping* sound. but no flats to worry about... on the other hand my friend had a pinch flat halfway of the first part of sunset. to my surprise, HE DOES NOT CARRY ANY EXTRA TUBE ](*,) lucky I had some patch in my pack.

Long Story short... you'll only have to worry about getting your sidewall ripped open. but still fixable with a tube and a dollar bill.

I use Azonic outlaw wheels with Maxxis High Rollers and had not have any problems with burping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_BsT8D9JYY

 

I never found a reason to convert yet:?:. I can only count two flats in the last two years of riding with tubes anyways. Both were so bad that even an tubless setup would have failed. I know one day ill try it, but tubes are cheap, so its not going to be anytime soon.

 

I found one reason :bang: rolling resistance went down dramatically climbing a 40lb'er \\/