Status of Lizards in LCWP (not yet opened)

Am I the only one who finds it sad that the closure/opening of a semi-OK 5 minutes single track trail in a county with a population of 3 million gets this much attention? So much potential in the OC yet so little to show for. The Cleveland National Forest feels as big as Park City, UT but the former is laced with boring fireroads while the later has endless alpine single track trails and an excellent organization maintaining the trails. Bah
 
I agree; it's sad. We have the need and potential for more trails. A mountain bike park would be awesome, but who builds it? And where?

Lacking that, some purpose-built trails like those we lost at Oakley would help fill the void.
 
http://www.socaltrailriders.org/forum/showthread.php?t=71531&page=2&p=1036259#post1036259

The City of Irvine is also currently tasked with re-writing their parks master plan...that process is underway and may include some of the 'open space' within the City Limits. OC Parks most recent strategic plan was approved in 2007...rewrites usually take a few years from initiation to approval and are generally updated every 10 years or less to ensure funding is allocated.
 
What is the likelihood of being able to have another trail built near the luge? Seems like there is a lot of land with very few trails out here. Even look at Aliso by comparison. They have cholla, lynx, rock-it, mathis, car wreck, stair steps, meadows, mentally sensitive.

On this side, it's the luge, old camp to the luge, and a couple other coming from 6'000 haha
 
^^ You're right, it's pretty sparse in that area. There are the extra credit trails along the STT which can be fun to put in the mix. And there's also Lower Joplin, which is currently closed at the bottom. It's a great trail, but legal egress needs to be re-established. Otherwise, I think it's still open and as a "down-and-back up" trail.

I was trying to establish an entirely new trail off the STT, but was continuously sidetracked to dealing with vehicle intrusion from Cadillac. New trails, done right, take a lot of time and effort and expense, but should be considered to match recreation needs with population growth.

There is also Limestone Canyon, which IMO is ripe for an extended singletrack network.
 
TrailBlaza said:
According to Strava, my best lizards time is ~5:30. I made a private route for the bypass and my best time is ~5:32. Almost exactly the same so the bypass is not faster! My bad.

Anyways, temporarily closing Lizards blows but the unfortunate fact is that Socal MTB'ing is dominated by fireroads and more singletracks are being closed rather than opened.
Click to expand...
The trails I ride are almost 100% single trac. We have fire roads too I think.
 
A D NOH said:
What is the likelihood of being able to have another trail built near the luge? Seems like there is a lot of land with very few trails out here. Even look at Aliso by comparison. They have cholla, lynx, rock-it, mathis, car wreck, stair steps, meadows, mentally sensitive.

On this side, it's the luge, old camp to the luge, and a couple other coming from 6'000 haha
Click to expand...

I would love to build a new trail, especially one thats more MTB specific. The Cleveland National Forest doesn't have any user specific trails they are all multi use. I would like to build a nice flow trail with some tech, like beginner to intermediate. In order to to even get the new ranger to consider a new trail it would take a lot of effort from the mountain bike community. One voice cannot change their thinking but if we all start reaching out in numbers and they start seeing more involvement from the community they might become more open to the idea. From talking to different people within the FS community many believe that the trails they have already are deteriorated, and they make comments like " No new trails can be built till the trails we have are all fixed, we have too much to take care of already". Once their one way mind set has been changed then it would require the usual GPS mapping, Submitting a request to the National Environmental Protection Agency (NEPA) for approval, then they would most likely send an FS engineer to check for sustainable soil and run off layout. It would be very involved and would most likely cost lots of money, which i don't think they have.

On the other hand, non established trails don't take any funding, because they are not really legit. Such as the luge, and since the luge used to be a road they turn a blind eye. I believe right now they are in the process of legalizing the luge and buying land at the beginning of STT starts on. so as far as i know only old service roads and trails can become re-established single track. Off of STT there are a few over grown roads that could be converted back to single track but the problem is they end up in private property. So yes there are possibilities of using these old roads but we would need to get the land owners consent to build an exit. I have no idea who owns the land or how to contact so its kind of a good luck.
 
FD Pezman said:
I would love to build a new trail, especially one thats more MTB specific. The Cleveland National Forest doesn't have any user specific trails they are all multi use. I would like to build a nice flow trail with some tech, like beginner to intermediate. In order to to even get the new ranger to consider a new trail it would take a lot of effort from the mountain bike community. One voice cannot change their thinking but if we all start reaching out in numbers and they start seeing more involvement from the community they might become more open to the idea. From talking to different people within the FS community many believe that the trails they have already are deteriorated, and they make comments like " No new trails can be built till the trails we have are all fixed, we have too much to take care of already". Once their one way mind set has been changed then it would require the usual GPS mapping, Submitting a request to the National Environmental Protection Agency (NEPA) for approval, then they would most likely send an FS engineer to check for sustainable soil and run off layout. It would be very involved and would most likely cost lots of money, which i don't think they have.

On the other hand, non established trails don't take any funding, because they are not really legit. Such as the luge, and since the luge used to be a road they turn a blind eye. I believe right now they are in the process of legalizing the luge and buying land at the beginning of STT starts on. so as far as i know only old service roads and trails can become re-established single track. Off of STT there are a few over grown roads that could be converted back to single track but the problem is they end up in private property. So yes there are possibilities of using these old roads but we would need to get the land owners consent to build an exit. I have no idea who owns the land or how to contact so its kind of a good luck.
Click to expand...


Due to lack of time with mine - and my wifes schedules, I don't get to do all the trail work I'd like to do - and along with a somewhat "quiet" forum (these days), it probably speaks volumes that no one has replied to this post...

Should you care to take the time to post any specific contacts etc, its something I'd be up for (trail work on current trails, and constructing/maintaining future ones) in the, hopefully, soon-ish future...
 
I rode by Lizards Last night ... by ...not down.
And there is a very nice new sign there basically pleading for people to not ride it and give them a little more time.
Saying we are still working on it, and that we really want the vegetation to grow in so we will have a great trail for all.
Yes I should have taken a pic.. I didn't will do next time.. assuming it is still there.
I have been told the by others (and that is NOT code) that the trail rides nice... yes I am one of those folks that have actually stayed off it.
 
I have stayed off, too. I rode LCWP two weeks ago. I saw the new green sign, but then it had the closed sign and caution tape. As I was reading what it says, some guy rode up, looked at me, pulled the yellow tape over his head and started going down. I said, "Dude, seriously?" Reply, "FU." And he kept going. SMH.

It is tempting, it is like dangling the carrot in front of the donkey, so hopefully it opens soon.
 
bvader said:
I rode by Lizards Last night ... by ...not down.
And there is a very nice new sign there basically pleading for people to not ride it and give them a little more time.
Saying we are still working on it, and that we really want the vegetation to grow in so we will have a great trail for all.
Yes I should have taken a pic.. I didn't will do next time.. assuming it is still there.
I have been told the by others (and that is NOT code) that the trail rides nice... yes I am one of those folks that have actually stayed off it.
Click to expand...

Thanks Steve for the update - really looking forward to riding it once it officially opens.
 
Sadly, there seem to be a lot of people who can't wait "a few extra days"... make us all look bad :-(

Also, they've been grading LCWP again for the past few days (and some CCSP), came across them on the east end of Fenceline yesterday -

2015-05-22 13.50.30.jpg

They've been making a real feckin mess...
 
As you can see it is OC Fire that does the road work. All they seem to care about is getting their fire truck in and out and never pay much attention to erosion, crowning and ditching. Ironic in that they are the ones that have to come out when their road work causes bike accidents. Granted they have gotten much better in just knocking down the high points and not the maintenance over kill they used to do. I have e-mailed County fire and local land managers pleading with them to water down the road and run a weighed water tanker down the road a few times to compact the loose dirt but have never received a response. Never do they blade the road before a rain and always create dry loose riding conditions that last most of the summer. County hypocrites talk safety then create unsafe conditions.

Dean
 
I don't know if I'd say VERY unsafe conditions, but yeah, unsafe for sure... Saw one guy, just riding along, his front wheel just slid out from under him as he hit a chewed up area that had been pushed up and was deep and soft.

I also noticed that they'd (tried) to do like waterbars, but they seemed more like speed bumps... Their placement was... ummm... questionable - especially when there was a new one within feet of pre-existing one.

Its just this year it seems extremely bad, well, to me anyway. And I understand these are fire roads for emergency vehicles, but if anything, right now these are worse than when they started working on them. I can't say that anything I rode yesterday, Bommer, Boat, Slow n easy needed carving up like they have been.

And I wouldn't call them roads. More like scars.

Funnily enough NPFD were also holding a training session at Ridge Park in the afternoon
 
I remember riding up Emerald fire road a couple years ago after they graded. I was like "what the hell happened here?" Two foot deep loose dirt. It was no Bueno.

I am eagerly awaiting Lizard opening up. With DST I like to do Lizard-Camarillo-Stagecoach-Willow-Fenceline after work. All of the times I have ridden there I have never been on boat canyon or stuff over there. I am going to have to explore it some time.
 
Yep every year the do this. We need more MTBing firefighters so they realize what they are screwing up.

Dean
 

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