Humor is never poorly used. If it was, it would not be humorous. A good laugh is a blessing, almost all the time.
So I start a thread about an injured female rider. Then a couple of posters pepper me with questions about her hotness and attire. One poster even suggests a budding romance on the trail that only Hollywood could do justice. Her friend met her Prince Charming on the trail when she twisted her ankle. I wept through the whole box of Kleenex reading that. It's only fitting that "Ladies Man" chimes in. Move over, Twilight. I'm grabbing popcorn :lol:
That was my point but Rachel always words it more eloquently. But here is another question: if you're suppose to assume an injured person is suffering from a spinal injury and they're vomiting, you're to move them on their side as one unit to keep from choking; what if you're by yourself and the person is heavier than you can move as one unit, then what?? What if the family sues you for not rendering first aid or you injure them more by moving them as best you could?? It becomes a slippery slope...no??
We were taught (commercial/industrial construction) that there is now a good samaritan law or something like that. there had been cases in which attempting first aid/cpr people further caused more injuries and good samaritans were being sued. My understanding was that due to fear of being sued people were NOT helping those in need. we were now taught that if a worker is in the path of further injury or death you are now encouraged to move them out of harms way, as further injury is better than death, without risk of being sued. I dont know how this would apply to a rider found on a trail. Maybe someone can chime in. It sucks we have to worry about being sued when your instincts are to help someone.
Me ... I am not going to let someone die at my feet if I can help it...Its a judgement call based on the circumstance.... bleeding out, cant't breathe, on fire (first hand experience) etc...literally minute by minute life threatening I am probably going to act. It scary, spinal very scary. That is only going to be the call in the extreme, otherwise yup, observe, coordinate, assess and get the professional help ASAP.
There is also the issue of the injured endangering not themselves, but others. I thought about the injured rider getting into her car and driving with a bad concussion still in denial of her condition. At this point, it becomes OUR business, not just hers. bvader mentioned his buddy with a bad concussion driving himself home, not not even remembering how he got home. That is a scary thought.
All this drama. Next time I see an injured cyclist on the trail I'm going to treat him like a horse -- shoot him and put him (and all of STR) out of its misery.
^^^ This, except that 911 is handled by the CHP. If you can, it's best to call the rangers, park dispatcher or local Sheriffs Dept as they'll know better on how to reach you. If not and you have no other choice, call 911. That said, how many of you have the phone numbers to the park dispatchers or rangers of which park or forest you are riding at the time? Not counting any of the Fully Loop involved injuries and there has been several, I've been involved in 3 rescues, 2 of the injured needed and wanted assistance: 1 with broken hip in Aliso.., I called the park ranger, then was told to call 911 by the ranger while she drove out to us. The 911 operator I spoke with located my phone's GPS to the exact location in Aliso and relayed it to the paramedics. The 911 operator said the GPS helped because trails names like Coyote, Wood Canyon mean nothing to the responders. The 2nd was suffering from dehydration, heat exhaustion and severe cramping in which 911 was already called. I assisted in flagging down the LA County helicopter from a visible high point, gathered the water bottles they dropped and then helped carry him up trail cause he couldn't walk to an area where we could get him into the helicopter. The 3rd while doing my TAV patrol in El Moro was a rider sitting after avoiding a head on with another rider and then OTB. He insisted he was fine and needed no assistance, but he did not even know what time it was, which part of the park he was in, why and how he was there sitting on the ground or where he started his ride from. I called the park dispatcher, a state park police officer showed up and assessed him with a concussion, then gave him a ride back to his car once he remembered where he parked. After I returned to the rangers office, I found out that once he got to his vehicle he refused any further assistance. The officer had no choice but to release him on his own. Not that what you did was wrong at all, but for me like in the 3 instances I encountered, if I know what to do or be of any assistance, then I will help or at the very least get help so I know that the person is in better hands than when I left them.
Many years ago my friends and I ran across a rider down who suffered an obvious head injury. Rider was very disoriented and refused help; argued did not want authorities called. We called anyway and the paramedics came out and treated the injuries etc but rider refused transportation to the hospital and just wanted to drive home. My friends and I stepped in - we took his keys, we put his bike in the car and they drove him home (I followed with the rest of our bikes). Didn't know the guy and he was spitting mad the whole time (a sign of a bad concussion) but at least he was not on the road potentially causing injuries to others. We explained to his very patient wife what happened and she immediately drugged his butt into the car and took him to the ER. Sometimes one just has to step in and up and make the decision... injured people are generally not able. And Gene said it... just never leave a person who is injured... once others step up, such as the authorities, friends or family, then you can go but not ever before then.
I am trained annually in adult CPR and first aid through my work. The Good Samaritan Law was discussed extensively. We were told the following (if I remembered them correctly): 1. You must be trained to provide the help that you are offering. So, if the person clearly has an injury beyond your training, call for help. Do not try to perform surgery or something beyond your ability. Always call 911. If the person can't breath and I pulled what I watched on TV from ER or something to open their airway and caused more damage, I may be sued. 2. If you decide to offer help, you must seek consent if the person is conscious. If the person grants you consent to help him/her, then you can offer the help within your training ability. If you do this, the Law will protect you from lawsuites. Call 911 if necessary. 3. If the person is conscious and refuses your help, then you cannot touch the person. However, it is within your rights to call 911. 4. If the person is unconscious, then consent is assumed by the Good Samaritan Law. Call 911 first. You can give CPR or aid until the person regains consciousness. At that point, you must seek consent again and follow 2 and 3 above. 5. If the person is a minor, you must seek the consent of guardian to offer help. If a guardian is not present, I forget what to do. This wasn't stressed since I was taking an adult CPR/First Aid course. I would probably ask the kid anyway. I am certain that there are paramedics or other trained first responders on STR that can offer more insights. But these first aid/CPR training classess are quite useful. I just hope that I can be calm and collected enough to provide the help that I have been learning for so many years in these annual training courses.
"The 911 operator I spoke with located my phone's GPS to the exact location in Aliso and relayed it to the paramedics. The 911 operator said the GPS helped because trails names like Coyote, Wood Canyon mean nothing to the responders." genusmtbkr5 This is a good because a lot of people don't even know which park they're in, let alone which trail. A friend and I came across a group of people standing around a deceased mountain biker in Laguna Coast a few years and they were calling it in as Crystal Cove. The helicopter kept veering off before getting to us until my friend correctly defined the location. Learn to be as clear as possible in describing where you are in case your cell phone's out-of-range or not working. Also, it's my understanding that dialing 911 boosts the signal in remote areas, for gps locating. Also, don't be afraid to tell someone if you notice something mechanically wrong with their bike, as in a quick release not properly tightened. Better they find out from you rather than halfway down Lynx. I'd also let newbies know that helmets need to be properly adjusted and not riding on the back of their heads. I'd always rather prevent an accident before it happens, or at least lessen the severity of one in the making. Its also a good practice to keep an eye on fellow trail users and offer assistance if you think it's needed, as in water or a snack, or change ride plans if a member of your group is having health problems or is over their head technically.
I just had my re certification through work last month and that is the exact procedure. No law will protect you if you give unwanted aid to a refusing person.
If I ever ride the Fully Loop at night, I'm taking you with me. NO WAIT!!! That didn't come out right!!! I mean I'd WANT YOU to be there! But only if YOU WANTED to be there! Riding with me.. I mean from a security standpoint.. Oh never mind.
Great, now I need to find a new hobby and the new Park-Concept-Tool that I was working on will be useless.
Holy cow. Details please? When, where, and how did he/she die? What do paramedics do when the victim refuses help, but clearly needs it? I've seen cases where the injured person getting combative with medics and refusing help out of concern for costs while bleeding profusely.
