New "Do Not Enter" Sign on Ladera Ridge, aka Lower Chiquita Ridge

[trailninja]

"Do you need to actually see someone cut new lines to believe they're there?" Nope that's why I inquired about it. Hikers have been known to also cut new lines trying to get out of the way from bikers on the dh.

"You think bench cuts happen naturally? Naturally or not I heard the trails suck in Ladera but thanks for the invite. Bigtex! The majority of the trails in SoCal are not natural btw. Shocker!

"You call it a rant, but you've never ridden in Ladera. For those of us who live here and ride that trail regularly, it's kind of significant." Touchy subject my apologies. Don't push me push a push pop. Lol.

 

[BigTex]

"Do you need to actually see someone cut new lines to believe they're there?" Nope that's why I inquired about it. Hikers have been known to also cut new lines trying to get out of the way from bikers on the dh.

"You think bench cuts happen naturally? Naturally or not I heard the trails suck in Ladera but thanks for the invite. Bigtex! The majority of the trails in SoCal are not natural btw. Shocker!

"You call it a rant, but you've never ridden in Ladera. For those of us who live here and ride that trail regularly, it's kind of significant." Touchy subject my apologies. Don't push me push a push pop. Lol.

Sorry, misunderstood your intent when asking if he's actually seen bikers cutting trails. I have, by the way - definitely not hikers. And I honestly appreciate some of the work that they're doing. They just need to not be stupid about where they make the trails - not on private land and not in areas fenced off for "habitat restoration." Yes, I put that in quotes because it's BS - the area is where some dirt jumps were bulldozed. But BS or not, building a trail on the other side of that fence is only going to attract the wrong kind of attention.

It's true that we don't have great trails around here. But they are what we've got, and I'd rather spend my time riding than driving somewhere to ride. If people keep being stupid about where they build trails, the options around here will be even worse than they are.

 

[jbwsrv]

Greetings. What I find far more troubling than the "trail building efforts" taking place around this area are the very negative and childish things being said on this thread by the very people that seem so interested in preserving precious trails.

Using works like "idiots", "stupid" and "cluelessness" does nothing for anybody and sets an incredibly negative tone to all of this. It's counterproductive in every possible way. I've read no clear objective or genuine call to action so far. I suppose someone will have a witty response of that being the very point of a "rant". My contention would be if you're passionate enough to write paragraphs on the topic and hurl insults around then you should have the passion to take meaningful action.

What's lacking is any level of positivity and acknowledgement of what can happen when a community comes together to tackle issues like this collectively...and positively.

I know these trails very well and probably ride them as much as anyone on this thread. Myself and other riders I know began getting hassled by RMV security back there about 2 years ago. We all saw the signs go up etc etc.

My point to all this: that primary ridge trail has always been destined for closure ever since the true expansion started creeping up that canyon a couple years ago. It's ultimate demise was not far off as you can clearly see how much progress they're making back there weekly/monthly.

For anyone to claim that the trail building happening is solely to blame for that ridge eventually being closed is being naive and ignoring the reality of the situation back there. And IF the ranger who was contacted claimed the ridge would "stay open forever" if it weren't for the trail building going on I'll go ahead and call BS on that.

I'll honestly state that I am not the one who built those lines dropping down near the Tesoro baseball field (TNT, Nitro & M80) but I will acknowledge that it's those very trails that started all this. I would absolutely encourage EVERYONE to stay completely off that side of the ridge (i.e. dpping down towards Tesoro). The more WE ALL stay away from the RMV security/patrol staff the better.

I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't propose a call to action so here it is...who likes beer and pizza?? Feel free to hit me back and express interest in a local community gathering to have an open dialogue about all this. I've begun looking into the monthly parks meetings that take place etc, would like to and am ready to get more involved.

I LOVE TO RIDE and that's all I want to do is see our trails expand and evolve the way this glorious sport continues to do.

Respectfully,
JJ

 

[BigTex]

So, JJ, how would you describe people who build trails in areas that are clearly off limits, cut fences or trespass on private land that is clearly marked? I actually have a stronger word, but I won't use it here.

As far as a call to action, I have - politely -asked those I've seen working on Waterworks not to build in areas that are fenced off and marked "habitat restoration."

I will take issue with this statement: "My point to all this: that primary ridge trail has always been destined for closure ever since the true expansion started creeping up that canyon a couple years ago. It's ultimate demise was not far off as you can clearly see how much progress they're making back there weekly/monthly." The development is happening far away from the area of the Ridge Trail they're trying to shut down. It's much closer to the part of the ridge trail that is on maps, legal, and which they are not trying to close. (I will concede that perhaps RMV is trying to declare the area of its property that the north end of the ridge trail crosses a bullshit "nature preserve" as part of the deal to build the houses and that may be part of the issue, but I still believe that it would have been ignored.)

You follow that statement by saying the trails on the RMV property (toward Tesoro) started all this. That's absolutely correct. Nobody had a problem with the ridge trail until that started, and I don't believe anyone would have a problem with it now if not for that.

We all love to ride and want to see our trail options expand. But if people keep building illegal trails on private property, not only will our options not expand, they'll shrink. And that would suck.

Welcome to STR, and perhaps I'll see you on the trails sometime.

 

[jbwsrv]

So, JJ, how would you describe people who build trails in areas that are clearly off limits, cut fences or trespass on private land that is clearly marked? I actually have a stronger word, but I won't use it here.

As far as a call to action, I have - politely -asked those I've seen working on Waterworks not to build in areas that are fenced off and marked "habitat restoration."

I will take issue with this statement: "My point to all this: that primary ridge trail has always been destined for closure ever since the true expansion started creeping up that canyon a couple years ago. It's ultimate demise was not far off as you can clearly see how much progress they're making back there weekly/monthly." The development is happening far away from the area of the Ridge Trail they're trying to shut down. It's much closer to the part of the ridge trail that is on maps, legal, and which they are not trying to close. (I will concede that perhaps RMV is trying to declare the area of its property that the north end of the ridge trail crosses a bullshit "nature preserve" as part of the deal to build the houses and that may be part of the issue, but I still believe that it would have been ignored.)

You follow that statement by saying the trails on the RMV property (toward Tesoro) started all this. That's absolutely correct. Nobody had a problem with the ridge trail until that started, and I don't believe anyone would have a problem with it now if not for that.

We all love to ride and want to see our trail options expand. But if people keep building illegal trails on private property, not only will our options not expand, they'll shrink. And that would suck.

Welcome to STR, and perhaps I'll see you on the trails sometime.

So, JJ, how would you describe people who build trails in areas that are clearly off limits, cut fences or trespass on private land that is clearly marked? I actually have a stronger word, but I won't use it here.

As far as a call to action, I have - politely -asked those I've seen working on Waterworks not to build in areas that are fenced off and marked "habitat restoration."

I will take issue with this statement: "My point to all this: that primary ridge trail has always been destined for closure ever since the true expansion started creeping up that canyon a couple years ago. It's ultimate demise was not far off as you can clearly see how much progress they're making back there weekly/monthly." The development is happening far away from the area of the Ridge Trail they're trying to shut down. It's much closer to the part of the ridge trail that is on maps, legal, and which they are not trying to close. (I will concede that perhaps RMV is trying to declare the area of its property that the north end of the ridge trail crosses a bullshit "nature preserve" as part of the deal to build the houses and that may be part of the issue, but I still believe that it would have been ignored.)

You follow that statement by saying the trails on the RMV property (toward Tesoro) started all this. That's absolutely correct. Nobody had a problem with the ridge trail until that started, and I don't believe anyone would have a problem with it now if not for that.

We all love to ride and want to see our trail options expand. But if people keep building illegal trails on private property, not only will our options not expand, they'll shrink. And that would suck.

Welcome to STR, and perhaps I'll see you on the trails sometime.

I would describe them avid mountain bikers, at worst avid mountain bikers with misguided energy.

I have not seen any fencing cut on trails around here but I certainly may have missed it. That's taking it too far. I'll also go on record and say I am guilty of ignoring property boundaries/signs from time to time in the pursuit of some new terrain. There are trails across this county where I and many others do just that and have done so for years. Laguna is a great example of somewhat accepted/tolerated illegal trail creation and riding. Not saying it's "right" but it is what it is.

I don't draw a complete parallel but I liken in some ways to my passion for skateboarding in SOCAL as a youth. Property boundaries and "signs" were not always adhered to. Again, guilty. Ever driven over the posted speed limit or not come to a full stop at an intersection in your car? A lot of research goes into those speed limits etc., just like happens for land zoning and trail creation. A bit of a grey area exists from time to time in life. All due respect to the gnatcatcher.

I respect what you take issue with in my position, I'll stand by my belief that the ridge at hand was destined for closure, just a matter of time. I've ridden that ridge for almost a dozen years and wondered many times about all the possibilities back there of sustainable trail creation and expansion. So much land to easily build legitimate trails rather than letting it sit and wait to die once RMV makes its way up that canyon, and it will.

Some of what's going on back there is positive and being enjoyed by many, young and old, hiker and biker.

I guess my only real point here is try keep it positive and play nice. Name calling and insults is not playing nice. It drives a greater wedge between the parties at stake and that is bad for everyone.

And I'm gonna use my keen sense of forensics and say that was you BigTex that I rode by earlier today. Wild guess in that you were a big guy like me and you were wearing a TX state flag jersey.

A fellow trailblazer that smiles and says hello is a welcome treat. Not enough of that happens around here!

Appreciate the dialogue.

Regards,
Jay

 

[BigTex]

And I'm gonna use my keen sense of forensics and say that was you BigTex that I rode by earlier today. Wild guess in that you were a big guy like me and you were wearing a TX state flag jersey.

Yep, that sounds like me. I was having a great ride, too, until I cut my sidewall. Fortunately I was close to a road where I could get some SAG support (i.e. my wife).

We're not far off in philosophy - I have no problem with new trails, authorized or not, as long as people are smart about it and it doesn't get out of hand. Building on private land and behind fences isn't being smart about it. Although in the case of the trails coming off the east side of the ridge, it would be easy to assume that's not private land, being right above the high school, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Now, what can we do to make sure the trails that aren't on private land remain available to us?

 

[jbwsrv]

Yep, that sounds like me. I was having a great ride, too, until I cut my sidewall. Fortunately I was close to a road where I could get some SAG support (i.e. my wife).

We're not far off in philosophy - I have no problem with new trails, authorized or not, as long as people are smart about it and it doesn't get out of hand. Building on private land and behind fences isn't being smart about it. Although in the case of the trails coming off the east side of the ridge, it would be easy to assume that's not private land, being right above the high school, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Now, what can we do to make sure the trails that aren't on private land remain available to us?

All good points and sorry to hear about the mechanical, never fun. Always good to hear/see philosophies beginning to align!

I am on the MTB road up the NorCal coast & OR starting tomorrow but would love to connect when I'm back in a couple weeks. I'm not kidding or placating when I say I am interested in learning more about trail advocacy and expansion possibilities in this incredible place we call home.

Happy trails and "talk" soon. TBC...

Jay

 

[dustyyoungblood]

I have always found it to be paradoxical to preserve "open space" that humans cannot have access to. And amusing that a big ass truck can plow a road to nowhere and that's ok, but a guy with a shovel moving dirt on a single track is a villain or criminal or worse.

I have not been riding a couple years, but the ridge used to be my weekly. I moved in to Ladera in 2003. At that time the ridge was completely over grown until a truck crew plowed it from the west end up to the hump. For several years I literally never saw anyone up there, ever. And I rode a lot. I used to take my down hill bike up the ridge and pedal speed runs as fast as possible over and over and never cross another rider. At that time I would ride it from the west end up to the hump and back and the weeds were 4 feet tall after heavy winter rains. Even though The firehouse trail was listed on the map, it was not what it is now. It was never used. In fact I started down it 3 times and turned around and gave up because it did not seem like it went through. It was barely rideable being over grown and difficult to navigate. Cacti would bite your legs for sure every time. In maybe 2004 or 05. I spent 2 days after a rain working on the firehouse trail. 3 small water bars up top, 3 corners were adjusted a bit. And the lower off camber area was repaired (bench cut) after heavy rain caused a small slide making it a walk a bike section if any moisture in the shade. This little bit of work on the legal trail held it in good condition for several years. Last time I hiked it the remnents of the work were still visible and I don't think it's been touched since or needed any maintenance.

The rage was never official. I used to ride the rage, pretty much from the first month it appeared. If I remember correctly the top section was "cut" with weed wackers by official workers making utilities access or survey or something official. People started riding it 1/2 way down and back up from the ridge, but it took some time before some riders connected the last DH to Antonio. I heard rumors of how they pulled off the last cut in orange vests or something fishy. It's not realistic to think this was ever an official legal trail. But I enjoyed it and am 100% for keeping it.

We are so lucky to have water works so close to home Buckets of fun, no matter how short. Protect it!!!

I just saw what looked like new deer trails from Antonio. I hope they are and not the other.....

Cheers all, get out there rideing

 

[dustyyoungblood]

BTW, the top of covenant hills is now connected to sendero via an official "trail" through the sendero "nature preserve". Kinda funny it's a preserve considering it was s cow pasture in 2002 and now all new homes below....

They opted for a ridiculously steep trail, instead of something interesting. It would have been such a great move to make some switch backs through the canyon

 

[BigTex]

BTW, the top of covenant hills is now connected to sendero via an official "trail" through the sendero "nature preserve". Kinda funny it's a preserve considering it was s cow pasture in 2002 and now all new homes below....

They opted for a ridiculously steep trail, instead of something interesting. It would have been such a great move to make some switch backs through the canyon

Heh. My standard joke is they put a Bobcat in neutral and let it roll downhill to make the east trail.... The west trail is somewhat rideable up, but just barely.

 

[Doctor Hollywood]

Well, guess what happened today? The entire east ridge trail north of Fire Hose has been completely shut off along with new no trespassing signs at the bottom of Pipeline (Rage). I assume a new one on Oso as well. My neighbor rode up there today and encountered the construction crew, accompanied by an OC Sheriff Deputy. They did not stop him on his first pass, but by the time he descended Inferno and came back up Fire Hose a new chain link gate with barb wire was in place. He said this new fence is considerably beefier than what was placed there the last couple times. I personally haven't had a chance to see it yet so I cannot confirm.

I know there are a lot of people on here who will say this is a result of all the new trail building. I have my own opinions on that but I will relay what the officer told my neighbor. As one poster had mentioned, the Ranch (RMV) and County have been looking the other way recently. The new trails east of the ridge line on RMV land above the high school really upset the Ranch. But according to the officer it is not primarily because of mountain bikers. You may notice that there is almost direct access to the high school at the bottom of those trails. He stated that this area has become a major concern to the Ranch because students were heading to this secluded area drinking and smoking both during the day and at night. I can attest to this when my girlfriend and I hiked the area, there were multiple locations littered with fast food, beer bottles, cigarets and condom wrappers. It was really disheartening to see. Then, per the description of the officer, a group of minors had a bonfire party back there a couple weeks ago which resulted in OCSD and the fire department getting involved. I can't verify this story but it is what was told to my neighbor. The officer also mentioned that there will be increased enforcement in the area ticketing trespassers.

As a Ladera resident this does really suck but I think many of us knew it was coming. I'm sure all of the increased activity hasn't helped anything. I actually appreciated the Undertaker trail because it kept bikers safer going under the bridge instead of crossing 6 lanes on Antonio. If the local trail builders are reading this, please do not cut the fence any time soon. I would not put it past the Ranch to send a dozer up there and grade out a chunk of the trail. This issue needs to die down hopefully to a point where the Ranch will open the gate and look the other way again. I would gladly trade removing trails like Inferno, Backdraft and the HS loop to get back to how things were a couple years ago.

 

[dustyyoungblood]

This is really unfortunate. If there is opportunity to organize and influence the ranch in any way for future trail protection or new trails I am happy to help.
The ranch could be an epic, absolutely epic trail system with official support from the ranch

 

[jeskandarian]

And there ya go. Hope everyone enjoyed their new trails!! They have yet to put any serious fencing at the Oso trail head but I'm guessing it'll happen soon.

And make no mistake. The cutting of new trails did not help. No one will ever be able to determine what exactly was the event that tipped the scales in this direction but hacking up the place brought nothing but enormous amounts of negative attention to the situation.

I've had an ongoing dialog with the Ranger, and a couple people at OCParks about this trail for a few weeks. They want to help and I'll start a new thread when I have any news. I'm awaiting timing for presenting to OCParks.

 

[dustyyoungblood]

"we are saving all this wildlife with our bulldozed roads and fences"

 

[jbwsrv]

"we are saving all this wildlife with our bulldozed roads and fences"

Still not buying the "blame game" of that fence being put in place solely due to other trail building efforts. Appreciate all the productive dialogue but the "I told you so" routine does nothing for anybody. Was destiny, face it. Enjoy the trails we have left. There are no signs on Oso aka deer crossing all the way to Backdraft. Enjoy it!

 

[trailninja]

I didn't know Ladera had a rain forest. Lol. What endangered plants and animals are in the area? That's one massive fence!

 

[jbwsrv]

That gorgeous new fence otta keep that confounded gnatcatcher safe and sound!

 

[dustyyoungblood]

Still not buying the "blame game" of that fence being put in place solely due to other trail building efforts. Appreciate all the productive dialogue but the "I told you so" routine does nothing for anybody. Was destiny, face it. Enjoy the trails we have left. There are no signs on Oso aka deer crossing all the way to Backdraft. Enjoy it!

Sharing your thoughts on this.

 

[jeskandarian]

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I've had an ongoing dialog with both the Ranger responsible for this area and some representatives from OCParks.

They've started asking questions and I'd like to gather your input.

I started a new thread here to both move to a more positive tone and do what we can to organize and help the County help us: http://www.socaltrailriders.org/index.php?threads/save-las-flores-ridge-ladera-ridge.65451/.

Please have a look and provide your input. The County is listening and they want to help us. Let's help them.

 

[dustyyoungblood]

Why is OC parks and the Ranger invloved? Thought this was a ranch issue?