New "Do Not Enter" Sign on Ladera Ridge, aka Lower Chiquita Ridge

[OTB_again]

This trail is listed as a legitimate bike trail on Google Maps here. It's also designated as County Regional Park property here. So RMV's right to order trail closures is questionable, and is definitely not in the spirit of RMV's Facebook page for their new nearby home development, which touts hiking, mountain biking, and backcountry accessibility as key selling points. The Facebook page seems to be a good place to politely inquire about restoring trail access.

Neither of these maps makes the trail legal by County definition, and that County Regional Park map doesn't show the trail at all. If you asked the County what makes a trail "legal", the answer you would get is that if the trail appears on a County map, it's legal. To get an existing trail mapped and accepted into the County's inventory, there is a whole host of environmental hoops and clearances to jump through (RMPs, etc.). Gene and others can attest to this via their work with the County and Aliso/Wood Canyon in getting trails such as Car Wreck and Mentally Sensitive adopted into the network, hence their appearance on official maps, trailhead signage, etc. Ladera Ridge (and Waterworks for that matter) have been long acknowledged by the County and O'Neill Park as existing (yet technically not legal) trails. My understanding is that RMV went to the County with concerns about the new offshoot trails dropping off the Ridge toward Tesoro HS and the County's response was to post the entire trail closed. I don't know if RMV is patrolling as diligently as they are in the Chiquita Ridge area, but if they are, it's a sure bust. Maybe someone else here knows the status of patrols.

Let's just hope Waterworks isn't next; the RMV suits have been seen out on that trail in recent weeks.

I would hope for now any new trail cutting in the area would cease at least until this issue cools off a bit.

 

[Soul_Control]

Rmv has so much pull that I'll be surprised if this hill isn't leveled out and full of more homes and a toll road jutting by come the next few years. It's a loss cause and I'm just glad we got to enjoy it and be able tell our children that we were able to ride and access non-Oc parks wilderness in south Oc at some point in our lives.

 

[BigTex]

Neither of these maps makes the trail legal by County definition, and that County Regional Park map doesn't show the trail at all. If you asked the County what makes a trail "legal", the answer you would get is that if the trail appears on a County map, it's legal. To get an existing trail mapped and accepted into the County's inventory, there is a whole host of environmental hoops and clearances to jump through (RMPs, etc.). Gene and others can attest to this via their work with the County and Aliso/Wood Canyon in getting trails such as Car Wreck and Mentally Sensitive adopted into the network, hence their appearance on official maps, trailhead signage, etc. Ladera Ridge (and Waterworks for that matter) have been long acknowledged by the County and O'Neill Park as existing (yet technically not legal) trails. My understanding is that RMV went to the County with concerns about the new offshoot trails dropping off the Ridge toward Tesoro HS and the County's response was to post the entire trail closed. I don't know if RMV is patrolling as diligently as they are in the Chiquita Ridge area, but if they are, it's a sure bust. Maybe someone else here knows the status of patrols.

Let's just hope Waterworks isn't next; the RMV suits have been seen out on that trail in recent weeks.

I would hope for now any new trail cutting in the area would cease at least until this issue cools off a bit.

Ladera Ridge may may not appear on county maps, but it does appear on official Ladera Ranch trail maps - at least the part of Ladera Ridge from Firehose to the power station. Firehose is also on that map.

I didn't realize there were trails that dropped down the east side toward Tesoro, although I had seen hints. If those trails or even Pipeline had been the problem, i don't understand why they didn't block those trails instead of the Oso entrance to LR, especially since the rest of LR is accessible from the other direction.

But it is troubling that RMV persuaded the county to close an accepted, if not official, trail that is on county property, in order to deter access to illegal and unaccepted trails. It really paints the pro-poaching crowd that has popped up in some other discussions in a different light. What happens when we lose existing, legal, official trails because they provide access to unofficial trails that people refuse to stop poaching?

 

[FijiRob]

Thanks Kreature! I just posted to their Facebook page in a couple spots. Folks, feel free to visit the page and give them your thoughts. Right now this may be our best option to stir things up.

This trail is listed as a legitimate bike trail on Google Maps here. It's also designated as County Regional Park property here. So RMV's right to order trail closures is questionable, and is definitely not in the spirit of RMV's Facebook page for their new nearby home development, which touts hiking, mountain biking, and backcountry accessibility as key selling points. The Facebook page seems to be a good place to politely inquire about restoring trail access.

 

[mytrustysteed]

Thanks Kreature! I just posted to their Facebook page in a couple spots. Folks, feel free to visit the page and give them your thoughts. Right now this may be our best option to stir things up.

Posted...thanks for the link

 

[scottywc]

Looks like there is going to be a public meeting coming up for the group within OC Parks that handles trails.

Regular meeting of the Regional Recreational Trails Advisory Committee, unless otherwise noted, meetings are at:

Santiago Oaks Regional Park
2145 N. Windes Drive in Orange
The meetings are on Monday nights at 6:30 p.m. approximately every other month for a total of six times per calendar year.

Upcoming meeting dates are May 19, July 21, Sept. 22 and Nov. 17.

Link to more info is here...http://ocparks.com/parks/trails/meetings

I say we get as many people to show up as possible to get good result from OC Parks and get our trails back!!!

 

[FijiRob]

Looks like there is going to be a public meeting coming up for the group within OC Parks that handles trails.

Regular meeting of the Regional Recreational Trails Advisory Committee, unless otherwise noted, meetings are at:

Santiago Oaks Regional Park
2145 N. Windes Drive in Orange
The meetings are on Monday nights at 6:30 p.m. approximately every other month for a total of six times per calendar year.

Upcoming meeting dates are May 19, July 21, Sept. 22 and Nov. 17.

Link to more info is here...http://ocparks.com/parks/trails/meetings

I say we get as many people to show up as possible to get good result from OC Parks and get our trails back!!!

Thanks for posting ScottyWC. Unfortunately I will be out of town for work and cannot attend so I hope there are some STR members that are able to attend. So the postings on Rancho Mission Viejo's Facebook page finally produced a response which is duplicated below. Feel free to believe it or not.

Rancho Mission Viejo Thank you all for your comments. At Rancho Mission Viejo, we've made a longstanding commitment to preserve a significant portion of our remaining land as a permanent habitat reserve for several endangered species, including the endangered California gnatcatcher. Select unauthorized trails were closed to protect their important, remaining habitat; however, there are alternative trail options in the Chiquita Ridge area available. For more information on the preservation of Chiquita Ridge, here is a link for more detail: (http://bit.ly/1j2DvoG). Also, The Reserve at Rancho Mission Viejo is happy to answer any additional questions. Please see the detail at the bottom of the link for further contact information.

 

[melster]

Bah. I just read their message there, and it basically says that the only authorized Chiquita ridge trail is from the apartments to Firehose.

 

[SeanC]

FYI- most of Orange County is preserved due to an NCCP/HCP that was established back in the 90's. The purpose was to set aside coastal sage scrub habitat for the gnatcatcher as mitigation for upcoming development. The acreage in the preserve is within OC parks, wilderness areas, city property, and other lands. More info can be found here:
http://www.naturereserveoc.org

When they say it's due to habitat, note that it's because of something agreed to long ago, that covered trails/roads/facilities existing at the time and certain proposed development.

 

[Kreature]

My uneducated guess is that bulldozing hundreds of acres for a major new housing development destroyed more coastal sage scrub habitat, and harmed far more gnatcatchers, than a decades-old singletrack on a lonely ridgeline ever could.

 

[kingaucho]

Well, I thought this would happen sooner or later, but ran into a couple of RMV workers on the ridge this morning putting up more barbed wire across the singletrack a little after the entrance to Pipeline (close to the drop to Oso). Be careful, especially if you are doing some night riding there.

 

[scottywc]

Well, I thought this would happen sooner or later, but ran into a couple of RMV workers on the ridge this morning putting up more barbed wire across the singletrack a little after the entrance to Pipeline (close to the drop to Oso). Be careful, especially if you are doing some night riding there.

Son of a bitch! This just isn't right. I've spoken with Dan something the Vp of operations over at RMV. He told me at the time they had no interest in closing the trails. Looks like I'm stopping by his office on Monday.

 

[Waldo]

No surprise, considering the very blatant go-around of the small fence they put up across the Oso Parkway entrance. It's obvious that people are poaching the closed section. So frustrating and so selfish.

 

[brparts]

this is a reply from RSM from a post i put on there Facebook page about the closing of these trails

Rancho Mission Viejo wrote: "Thank you all for your comments. At Rancho Mission Viejo, we've made a longstanding commitment to preserve a significant portion of our remaining land as a permanent habitat reserve for several endangered species, including the endangered California gnatcatcher. Select unauthorized trails were closed to protect their important, remaining habitat; however, there are alternative trail options in the Chiquita Ridge area available. For more information on the preservation of Chiquita Ridge, here is a link for more detail: (http://bit.ly/1j2DvoG). Also, The Reserve at Rancho Mission Viejo is happy to answer any additional questions. Please see the detail at the bottom of the link for further contact information.

 

[BigTex]

this is a reply from RSM from a post there Facebook page about the closing of these trails

Rancho Mission Viejo wrote: "Thank you all for your comments. At Rancho Mission Viejo, we've made a longstanding commitment to preserve a significant portion of our remaining land as a permanent habitat reserve for several endangered species, including the endangered California gnatcatcher. Select unauthorized trails were closed to protect their important, remaining habitat; however, there are alternative trail options in the Chiquita Ridge area available. For more information on the preservation of Chiquita Ridge, here is a link for more detail: (http://bit.ly/1j2DvoG). Also, The Reserve at Rancho Mission Viejo is happy to answer any additional questions. Please see the detail at the bottom of the link for further contact information.

Funny how those "unauthorized trails" haven't affected the gnatcatcher in the last 15 years, and are all of a sudden causing problems with habitat. I suspect many more trails that RMV doesn't want to deal with will be closed to protect the "endangered California gnatcatcher." Plus all the trails they claim they will build with their new developments will not be able to be built because of "habitat destruction." Much like the roads through the toll road property are closed to mountain bikers and hikers to potect habitat, yet are driven on by multiple vehicles daily.

 

[FijiRob]

Funny how those "unauthorized trails" haven't affected the gnatcatcher in the last 15 years, and are all of a sudden causing problems with habitat. I suspect many more trails that RMV doesn't want to deal with will be closed to protect the "endangered California gnatcatcher." Plus all the trails they claim they will build with their new developments will not be able to be built because of "habitat destruction." Much like the roads through the toll road property are closed to mountain bikers and hikers to potect habitat, yet are driven on by multiple vehicles daily.

...not to mention they are developing thousands of houses a mile away with mass grading going on right now. Oh, but the gnatcatcher is significantly impacted because some teenagers decided to build a crappy single track off shoot last summer and now its an environmental catastrophe. Oh and the La Pata extension is being developed too but OMG this little birdie on a off shoot trail is in extreme danger in So Cal. It's all BS. Where is the EIR or data showing this one little lonesome single track trail has been drastically affected? All they have to do is block off entrance to the off shoot and everyone will be happy, but noooooo they have to be a-holes and put up more barbed wire on a trail that walkers, hikers, high school running teams, boy scouts, and mountain bikers use on a daily basis and have used for many years. Take care of the issue, block the off shoot. Guys, feel free to visit the RMV Facebook page and say hello to them.

 

[BigTex]

Well, I thought this would happen sooner or later, but ran into a couple of RMV workers on the ridge this morning putting up more barbed wire across the singletrack a little after the entrance to Pipeline (close to the drop to Oso). Be careful, especially if you are doing some night riding there.

So I misunderstood this when I read it. The barbed wire was placed across the top entrance to Pipeline - essentially recreating the fence that was there before – blocking that trail. It was NOT placed across Ladera Ridge trail. Was up there today, and no signs or other blockages across the trail. Not as bad as I feared (but my condolences if you loved Pipeline).

 

[kingaucho]

So I misunderstood this when I read it. The barbed wire was placed across the top entrance to Pipeline - essentially recreating the fence that was there before – blocking that trail. It was NOT placed across Ladera Ridge trail. Was up there today, and no signs or other blockages across the trail. Not as bad as I feared (but my condolences if you loved Pipeline).

They were quite a ways down from Pipeline and said they were putting the wire across the trail where they were standing. Great to know the singletrack is still open. Thanks for the update!

 

[BajaWaldo]

My "go to" ride that is/has been open with no signs or barbed wire: Start at apartments (Antonio/Avendale), up onto Ladera Ridge, north to single track, down the Rage, over to Water Works, Arroyo, and back up to my Ladera neighborhood...

My neighbor was cruising back their toward Oso and had to lay it down when he came up on the barbed wire at speed... Needless to say, he was pretty scratched up and not too happy bout it.

 

[FijiRob]

I think it is time for all of us in the Ladera, Las Flores, MV and RSM communities to unite as a mtb community and start some discussions with the Rangers over at O'Neill that seem to now oversee this area and see if we can come up with a resolution to this. Barbed wire is extreme and is certainly a hostile threat to lots of trail users. Rancho Mission Viejo is the root of the problem here and I doubt they will play nice with anyone. Maybe we can all meet up one evening for a ride and some beers at Selma's, etc. to discuss? I doubt any hikers or residents will take action so it's pretty much up to us.

My "go to" ride that is/has been open with no signs or barbed wire: Start at apartments (Antonio/Avendale), up onto Ladera Ridge, north to single track, down the Rage, over to Water Works, Arroyo, and back up to my Ladera neighborhood...

My neighbor was cruising back their toward Oso and had to lay it down when he came up on the barbed wire at speed... Needless to say, he was pretty scratched up and not too happy bout it.