New "Do Not Enter" Sign on Ladera Ridge, aka Lower Chiquita Ridge

[emejay]

Are u sure u mean Waterworks? Not firehouse or pipeline? The top of waterworks is off Antonio. The bottom is in Arroyo trabuco. Closings waterworks would really suck.

I rode Waterworks yesterday afternoon....no fence of sign was present.

 

[scottywc]

Are u sure u mean Waterworks? Not firehouse or pipeline? The top of waterworks is off Antonio. The bottom is in Arroyo trabuco. Closings waterworks would really suck.

The section that starts at the top of the ridge and ends at Antonio. I could have the name wrong, I suck of section names.


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[FijiRob]

ScottyWC - I believe you are thinking of The Rage that drops off near the Kinder Care.

Guys! We need to all get together and figure out a way to get our voices heard! I was hoping with all the development down in Sendero that we would have more trails, not less! Let's not stop until we get these trails reopened.

 

[MohammedInABearSuit]

ScottyWC - I believe you are thinking of The Rage that drops off near the Kinder Care.

Guys! We need to all get together and figure out a way to get our voices heard! I was hoping with all the development down in Sendero that we would have more trails, not less! Let's not stop until we get these trails reopened.

The way to get heard in OC is via money. Until the MTB community raises funds and gets involved with Politics on the front-end we will always end up on the short end of any "public lands" agreement.

 

[Waldo]

The way to get heard in OC is via money. Until the MTB industry raises funds and gets involved with Politics on the front-end we will always end up on the short end of any "public lands" agreement.

Fixed it for ya.

This is so true. It's a great start for one or two dozen riders to show up at a council meeting to voice their concerns, but it's a whole other thing if those riders are backed up by speakers from bike-related companies that are significant employers and taxpayers. I'm not sure if any bike-related companies (manufacturers, retailers, media, etc.) are based in Ladera, but it seems wise to reach out to any in the area. Since it's unincorporated land, and the local council reports to the OC Board of Supervisors, maybe other bike companies in Orange County would be fair game to get involved (?).

Sure, many companies support IMBA, but is that enough, and does it influence these sort of local scenarios? (I doubt it) And look at the list of companies providing $50k+ to IMBA; where are the big industry players? It sure seems to me that if they want to keep growing sales, then it would be in everyone's interest for the industry to step up big-time on access issues. I know I'll try to pay more attention to which companies support these issues, and send my dollars their way.

It seems to me that a combination of local grassroots organizations and some serious industry backing is the only way to deal with both the micro and macro level issues we're all fighting.

 

[da big hills]

I rode a trail that dropped down to a main avenue that looked exactly like the one on the photo. It was uncanny. It even had all the same wildflowers.
After popping a few curbs and center divider it climbed 300 feet out the other side, I made it an out and back. The trail ran a ridge for about an hour, lots of climbing, most not too step, it ended up riding like a climb both ways. All single track, you ride the flow and hammer back to another climb, sweet.
You guys must have lost a gem.
Sorry for your loss

 

[mytrustysteed]

If anyone is interested in the read

This was the communication I received from the OC Parks service.


At this time there is no alternative to the closure besides the existing trail
infrastructure identified on the OC Parks website.

I apologize for the inconvenience.

William S. Fegley
Supervising Park Ranger | O’Neill Regional Park
OC Parks
30892 Trabuco Canyon Road
Trabuco Canyon CA 92530
(949) 923 2259
(714) 227 0459

Working Hours:
Monday – Thursday, 6am to 4:30pm

More about OC Parks: Website, Twitter, Facebook


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 9:07 AM
To: Fegley, William
Cc: Moreno, Marie; Bates, Pat; Gannaway, John
Subject: RE: Trail Closure on Lower Chiquita/Ladera Ridge

William, I appreciate your response. While you stated there are "several" trails
accessible in the area these trails are becoming fewer and fewer and more
crowded along the way. Closing these trails completely blocks residents from
access to open space in the area, which you state is on County property. As most
of the trails in the Chiquita/Ladera area have been closed, there simply are not
that many options for trail users anymore. The entire area North of Oso known as
Chiquita ridge has been closed to hikers and bikers to preserve as open space,
however the city of RSM has already been approving plans for development. I have
lived in South Orange County for 40 years and have seen to much of this "open
space" slowly become designated as"previously designated open space" then sold
to a developer to be turned in to another neighborhood and and/or shopping
center. I am not anti-development, however I think we need to be able to invest
in what makes this area beautiful and the reason we live here.

Can you tell me please if there are alternatives to closing these trails? Is
there a process in which a resident or group can volunteer to construct the
trail and maintain it in a way that would be acceptable to the County? I have
access to many mountain bike and hiking groups in the area that already do trail
work in the county (legally) and in the nearby CNF and could help organize a
group to put forth a proposal to the county.

Thank you again and I hope there is an opportunity for residents to have some
input on accessible county owned land.


---- "Fegley wrote:
Thank you for your inquiry about the recent unauthorized trail closure in the
Chiquita Wilderness. As you know, two unauthorized trails were closed in the
vicinity of Antonio and Oso Parkway.

As land managers, OC Parks has a responsibility to it fellow property owners.
The two unauthorized trails were closed as a result of trespassing that has
occurred on Rancho Mission Viejo Open Space. The unauthorized trails on County
property were providing access to this open space and were closed as a result.

OC Parks makes every effort to balance land stewardship and public access.
There are several authorized trails available for your use in south county.
Please visit OCParks.com and see the trail maps at O’Neill Regional Park, Riley
Wilderness Park and Ronald W. Caspers Park.

Thank you and feel free to contact me if you have any additional questions or
concerns.

William S. Fegley
Supervising Park Ranger | O’Neill Regional Park OC Parks
30892 Trabuco Canyon Road
Trabuco Canyon CA 92530
(949) 923 2259
(714) 227 0459

Working Hours:
Monday – Thursday, 6am to 4:30pm

More about OC Parks: Website, Twitter, Facebook

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 8:40 PM
To: Park, ONeill Regional; ocparks
Cc: Bates, Pat
Subject: Trail Closure on Lower Chiquita/Ladera Ridge

Good evening, I came across a post on the internet in which someone had posted
the attached photo from the entrance to a well established and popular trail
near Ladera Ranch off Oso Parkway about 100 yards past Meandering Trail Rd
intersection. This entrance is the only access point on this end of the trail
and one of the few slivers of "natural" land in the area. I am wondering why
this area has been closed and blocked to users. Are there plans to re-establish
this trail? Is this area now permanently blocked to people in the area who wish
to have trail access? Will there be an opportunity for residents (tax payers) to
voice our concern over this issue?

I apologize for all the questions, however if this is part of the OC parks
jurisdiction why would the public not be allowed to access it? Thank you and I
look forward to your response.

 

[socal_eric]

Not being from that area it sucks to hear of trails being shut down. Looking at his reply in that email chain one item I noted as follows.

"The two unauthorized trails were closed as a result of trespassing that has
occurred on Rancho Mission Viejo Open Space. The unauthorized trails on County
property were providing access to this open space and were closed as a result."

If I'm reading that right, the trails/access areas are on county/OC Parks land but lead to trails on the open space, correct? And that open space is on Rancho Mission Viejo company land? If so, to satisfy the county and parks system would it not require the RMV company to say it's okay to use the trails and then the county wouldn't have any objections?

 

[mytrustysteed]

Not being from that area it sucks to hear of trails being shut down. Looking at his reply in that email chain one item I noted as follows.

"The two unauthorized trails were closed as a result of trespassing that has
occurred on Rancho Mission Viejo Open Space. The unauthorized trails on County
property were providing access to this open space and were closed as a result."

If I'm reading that right, the trails/access areas are on county/OC Parks land but lead to trails on the open space, correct? And that open space is on Rancho Mission Viejo company land? If so, to satisfy the county and parks system would it not require the RMV company to say it's okay to use the trails and then the county wouldn't have any objections?

Yes, or if they do not want people riding/hiking on private property they can close off the trails that lead to RMV land and keep the trails on "public" land open to tax payers.

 

[FijiRob]

I'm sure all parties involved in closing this trail are monitoring this thread. So here it goes. The RMV Open Space is pretty much easily accessible up and down Antonio and Oso Parkway and the entire ridge trail that is about 3 miles in length. So in my humble opinion adding 15 feet of barbed wire isn't really preventing anyone from poaching if they wanted to continue to poach RMV lands along this massive corridor. They can simply choose another spot on the other side of Tesoro High School. I don't poach the RMV lands, but adding this fence seems to be a futile move and they are naive to think 15 feet of barbed wire will keep the intruders out of RMV lands if the same folks want to continue to poach. Heck, the entire ridge trail that we were stripped of has fencing and lot's of posted signs preventing access.

I have seen some trail offshoots located off of the main trail near Oso that may have been illegally built by some kids which likely prompted this closure near Oso. If this is the case maybe they could build the barriers at those locations and close them off to prevent the kids from causing further damage, while keeping the main trail open. A great example of this is down in Waterworks, just a short distance away where the Rangers are successfully revitalizing the old pump track into a restored habitat. The entire ridge system trail is well established (and from what I can tell on aerial imagery has been there since at least 1980) and is/was heavily used by many joggers, hikers and mountain bikers that stick to the trail and do not cause harm or damage to the surrounding vegetation. The offshoot trails were probably keeping some kids busy during summer so don't punish the 99.99% of the folks that enjoy this trail daily and who would gladly sign up to maintain and monitor these trails. I would be the first to sign up. Heck, maybe even add an informational sign at the trailhead stating the sensitive nature of the habitat and that all users must stick to the designated trail. Just throwing things out there... Come on OC Parks and RMV, there has to be some sort of compromise here if you have dozens of folks on board to be stewards of this trail.

 

[mytrustysteed]

^ Couldn't agree more. They are not keeping the trail poachers out, they are only keeping the rest of us out who only want to ride what used to be legal trails.

 

[scottywc]

I find the response from Mr. Fegley very inconsistent. The Lind that the trail is on is owned by LARMAC, e Managment company for Ladera Ranch. Reason being that the trail system along that ridge is part of the Ladera Ranch trail network.

Additionally putting signs up that these two access points does not close off the trail, there are other access points but they are essentially trail heads that lead to the closed sections.

We also need to to look at these postings as a public health risk. Adding signs and barbed wire at the base of two pup liar down hill sections with no notice at the top is just asking for disaster. If I had started my ride at the base of the ridge behind the apartments, as I often do, and then rode the ridge to Oso, I would know about the sign until is was going about 20mph downhill. Not a great time to be met with a sign and wire.

This fight isn't over. We as a cycling community need to stand strong and keep the pressure on OC Parks, LARMAC, and is guess RMV to open up the 'open space'. If the public doesn't have access to the open space, why bother having it? Why bother using it as a selling point to your residents?


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[ebenke]

We shouldn't forget it's RMV's land and we've enjoyed it for years. I agree the closure is a bummer, its my favorite night riding spot, but it's their right as the owner to close the trail. RMV doesn't owe anybody an explanation or any advanced warning, or need the publics approval.

Do I like it no, do I think petitioning the land owner to request re-opening is a good idea, sure, as long as its done properly.


Ebenke - Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk, which really sucks.

 

[mytrustysteed]

We shouldn't forget it's RMV's land and we've enjoyed it for years. I agree the closure is a bummer, its my favorite night riding spot, but it's their right as the owner to close the trail. RMV doesn't owe anybody an explanation or any advanced warning, or need the publics approval.

Do I like it no, do I think petitioning the land owner to request re-opening is a good idea, sure, as long as its done properly.


Ebenke - Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk, which really sucks.

I could be wrong but that is not the way I understand it. The land is "public" County owned land. RMV asked them to close it because of some recently built illegal offshoots that lead on to their land.

 

[dstepper]

You should just obey the signs and not question authority!

Remember...May 4, 1970 Kent State.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCS-g3HwXdc&app=desktop

 

[OTB_again]

I could be wrong but that is not the way I understand it. The land is "public" County owned land. RMV asked them to close it because of some recently built illegal offshoots that lead on to their land.

This is correct. The main trail we know as "Ladera Ridge" meanders between County owned property and RMV owned land, with the majority of the trail including Pipeline being situated on County property. The newer offshoot trails dropping down toward the Tesoro HS side are on RMV owned land (aka private property) hence the problem we now have.

 

[FijiRob]

This is correct. The main trail we know as "Ladera Ridge" meanders between County owned property and RMV owned land, with the majority of the trail including Pipeline being situated on County property. The newer offshoot trails dropping down toward the Tesoro HS side are on RMV owned land (aka private property) hence the problem we now have.

Seems too obvious and simple to block the offshoots rather than the legal trail. Glad they thought this one through all the way.

 

[Finnigan]

Seems too obvious and simple to block the offshoots rather than the legal trail. Glad they thought this one through all the way.

They're all unauthorized. If it aint on the county map, it's off limits. But the truth is, the county wouldn't have to close trails if people didn't feel they had the right to put in their own private trail wherever they saw fit. Don't go after the county, go after trail poachers, self-police our sport, and the problems go away.

 

[Kreature]

This trail is listed as a legitimate bike trail on Google Maps here. It's also designated as County Regional Park property here. So RMV's right to order trail closures is questionable, and is definitely not in the spirit of RMV's Facebook page for their new nearby home development, which touts hiking, mountain biking, and backcountry accessibility as key selling points. The Facebook page seems to be a good place to politely inquire about restoring trail access.

 

[coolbreeze]

RMV is an unincorporated area of Mission Viejo and is maintained by OC Public Works. "The Ranch Plan Planned Community" has 5 distinctive neighborhoods that has been approved for development. PA5 has already been developing over the last year or so and is known as SENDERO - a pretty large community still under construction. I believe the area regarding this thread is known as PA2, which is one of the 5 upcoming neighborhoods. You can get more info here http://ocplanning.net/code (click on The Ranch Plan Planned Community for program text/outline). Link to map: http://ocplanning.net/civicax/filebank/blobdload.aspx?BlobID=9044