Full crackdown on illegal trails - Laguna & Aliso

I've seen plenty of hikers going up the Meadows fall line trail as well. It's not that steep and is more efficient and gets hikers away from cyclists. It goes against park rules, but makes sense from a user standpoint-- and some of those users might even be deer.

 

Wait, are you as a trail builder actually giving a pass to hikers that are cutting the switchbacks on meadows? Because it certainly comes across that way, and that is a very slippery slope.

 

While we were working on Meadows last year, we saw hikers using the fall line trail and while watching, we realized part of the reason was to stay out of the way of bikes and minimize the chance for a collision. Not only is it a more direct line - something human nature can't seem to resist - but it is safer from a hiker point of view. I don't think Kioti or others are advocating cutting across, just explaining it. I have also witnessed more than a few bikes using the "cut lines" to pass slower riders, avoid hikers or get out of the way of climbing riders. Most of the cut corners on Meadows are not done maliciously or to cut STRAVA times. Mostly it's done for logical reasons by people who don't know any better. Perhaps all bikes and hiking regalia should be sold with a trail etiquette pamphlet in SoCal. No, really. Let's do that.

If the people you've shown some trails to rarely ride them, what's your beef? The current crackdown is certainly not because of people who don't ride the trails.

Seems to me the current spike in enforcement is because of the sheer volume of people who are riding the trails, talking about it openly, boasting and posting about the trails and not exercising discretion. Moreover, the bikes we love to ride are begging for such challenging trails and many just can't resist. But what do I know. I'm just a big forum talker who never rides.

:wave:

 

In general hikers only think about hikers and bikers only think about bikers and each group thinks they are right and the other folks are wrong. The straight line is so well developed it looks like a real trail. If I were a hiker I would also take the shorter path that avoids the bikers, and I would assume that the bikers would prefer it if I hiked on the straight path. Instead of spending so much effort trying to obliterate the straight path couldn't the trail maintenance people just put in water bars on the straight path to eliminate the erosion concerns? With bikers going so fast down meadows it really isn't safe or fun to hike there. It is only a matter of time before a hiker gets seriously injured or killed and then it will be game over for all bikes in the all of the parks.

 

Agreed, and I'd add it's generally just the sheer volume of people, period.

Add in the drought, and an increased deer population, and the natural cover has been cut way back so that non-riders can notice the unsanctioned trail network. You aren't hidden in the bushes anymore.

The trail builder in Santiago Oaks worked pretty hard to cover up the old trail network, but the original trail users went and opened them right back up. The trail users who did this ought to be shot or eaten by mountain lions, you'd think the deer should know better than to cut switchbacks.

 

I doubt that water bars would prevent erosion on a trail that goes straight down the fall line, especially in such a high-traffic area and one that gets as much moisture as Meadows does. Those types of trails tend to require more maintenance, or they simply become unsustainable, and over time, water and traffic would turn it into a big rut that would end up damaging the existing trail as well.

Besides, if the fall-line becomes too well-established, more and more hikers and bikers will use it, and then you'd have two trails. Then you'd have even more cut-across lines between the two, and a once beautiful trail that was integrated well into the terrain would become an ugly, degraded scar that would lead to long-term closure for restoration.

 

I've advocated for two trails on that slope, one for bikes and one for hikers. I was a hiker long before becoming a mountain biker, and the serenity on foot is a different modality from that on a bike. As a trail runner, I've run a game trail straight up and down the fall line many times. It's a natural path. Even while working on Meadows, on foot, it made more sense to use the fall line trail in places than stay on the designated trail. That's because the gradient isn't all that steep, and it's open terrain without obstructions or risk. I'm generally opposed to control fences in wilderness parks because they are unnatural and become man-made hazards. The condition last year of the fences on Meadows was that they actually had sharp rails pointed in the direction of the trail. As far as I know, park regs do not allow for two adjacent trails, and riders might ride on a hiker-only trail anyway, although I'd see this as a better thing to patrol. As for illegal trails, I'd say discretion is the better part of valor. That means grow a spine and stop bragging about it. As I understand it, Mentally Sensitive was a much better trail before it was made legal. That argues, to me, for a live and let live philosophy. Close or control non-system trails that are being severely damaged, but otherwise let them be. They're basically game trails for humans.

It rained last night so I'm going to go work on a trail. It's legal but not officially in the system. I'm working on that, too. Have a great day and maybe see you out there.

 

Post illegal behavior? It's like getting a speeding ticket. Like a fine and that's all. Plenty people post themselves driving over 65mph on youtube.

 

Speeding on the freeway won't get cars banned from your favorite commuter route.

 

From what I've seen, the crackdown is because people were riding a trail that ends at a popular hiking spot on the weekends when the spot was very crowded. This area has "no bikes" signs. Rangers had to do something with such a blatant violation of park rules and potential for injury when some weekend warrior type could ride across a rockface with kids and families scattered all around. Use some common sense when out there riding and avoid the crowds/hikers. This is not a STRAVA/Youtube problem.
I still don't understand why Marie Calendars was closed. Is that an illegal trail? I always thought it was legal. If it is illegal, it should be a "poster child" for being made legal. Does anyone know the process for that?

 

*EDIT*

Post deleted by request.

 

Poor guy getting on blast for a fat kom haha lame!!. Anyone riding these trails on strava should be private or not using the app.

 

Where have you been...it has never been legal. Have you ever seen a MC Trail sign or seen it listed on any of the official park maps? I have no idea what you mean what you are taking out a rock face, kids or crowds...hikers can not be on MC either.

 

+1 I don't know what the point is pointing out this poor fellow. More interesting is close to 300 people have ridden this trail. Upper MC has almost a 1,000 riders. I wonder how many non-strava riders have ridden this trail. Seem like a pretty popular ride & I think it's a valid question as to why this trail is not legal???

 

Per the county, Indian artifacts and not sustainable.

 

...

 

To eat his own? The point is that it is PUBLICLY accessible information. He isn't posting super secret information violating Fight Club rules.

 

Pretty bold claim considering it holds up 10x better than county-approved trails like Car Wreck and Mentally Sensitive.

 

Why post it then? Just another thread turned into complaining about things that don't matter instead of facing reality. Strava isn't the problem. We are... mountain bikers. There are some awesome illegal trails and we enjoy riding them. We shouldn't be and that's why they are cracking down on us. Simple, and it doesn't require trashing someone for tracking there rides.

 

Any chance we could convince you to remove this post? Bad enough that he posted it, you re-posting it doesn't help. Thank you.