Crystal Cove State Park (El Moro) conditions (merged threads)

Are you sure it was a ranger you spoke to? I was at a meeting at the park on Wed. night and the ranger didn't seem to think this would be a prolonged closure.

 

I just assumed that whoever answered the phone was a park ranger. Basically, the person who anwered the line explained that the trails were closed today, and that they would be for weeks to come as there was significant work that needed to be done before they could reopen. Hopefully that isn't the case though. With the decent stretch of good weather we're supposed to getting, I was really hoping to do some riding there.

 

Warning $275 Ticket!

Apparently El Moro & Crystal Cove are still closed.:-s
I checked the website and it was not listed as closed, I also called but there was no answer just a busy signal all day yesterday.
So I figured I would give it a shot and go for a ride entering through Ridge park drive. When I get there I notice about three other MB's two were leaving the trail and another was preparing to go in.
Seeing this I was comfortable enough to try the park out. I was still skeptical because I have been told that the parks usually stay closed for three days of every one day of rain.
I rode in the park entrance and saw the big map and no signs anywhere signaling that the park was closed. I rode down "rattle snake" and instead of riding back out "I think I can" I decided to ride down to the coast down El Moro Canyon. The condition of the trail was pretty bad and I passed a section of the trail that was completely washed out. I stopped and took a picture that I posted below and started to wonder why they decided to keep the park open with the trails in those conditions. Something told me to turn around but I continued on and that was a mistake.#-o
There was a Ranger on a four wheeler in the bushes on El Moro Canyon trail. I don't know what he was doing there but when he saw me he rode out of the bushes onto the trail in front of me. I pulled over and he asked me how I got into the park. I explained that I rode in from Ridge Park rd and asked him if the park was closed. He said yes it is and asked my why didnt I call the park first. I explained that I called but could not get through so I checked the website. He said that I should have called first because on the answering machine there is a message that the park is closed.He then went on to say he was trying to decide weather or not to give me a $275 ticket.
At that point I assured him that I respected the park rules and would never have entered the park if I had known it was closed. I then asked him why there was not a closed sign on the Ridge Park entrance and he said, and I quote
"A Mountain Biker must have torn it down".:lol:
I just laughed it off and apologized again and told him I would leave immediately.He then said, "I will not give you a ticket but I want you to post it on one of those MB websites that the park is closed and spread the word I'm giving out tickets to riders".
I promised him that I would spread the word and post it here on STR so thats what i'm doing. He didn't give me a ticket thank the Lord! And I rode out back up "I think I can". I was about half way up the trail and he rode up on me again and asked me why I didn't go back the way I came and I explained that I felt this way was a faster route. He agreed and rode off.
On the way out I saw a couple of more bikers and warned them as well.
All in all I had a good ride I got in about 10 miles and the park was mostly empty but the trails are in pretty bad shape.

 

You were lucky grasshopper... as by the time the courts add all their extra costs in it would have ended up costing you over $500. Not worth it!

 

There is a problem with the current system of letting people know that the park is closed. Apparently the gate at Ridge Park is actually not on State (Crystal Cove) or County (Laguna Coast Wilderness) property. It is on either Irvine Co property or Crystal Cove Home Owners Assoc property. For that reason, by the time you see a sign of any kind indicating that the park is closed, you are already in the park.
I discussed this with a CCSP park ranger this week and she indicated that something might be done soon to let people know when the park is closed.

In the mean time, please consider using this rule of thumb for deciding whether to ride or not. If your tire tracks are leaving an impression on the trail, don't ride. Any impression will funnel water the next time it rains and will eventually develop into a rut.

You don't need the park to tell when it is not OK to ride. Do it for the trails, not just because you don't want a ticket.

 

Oddly enough, LCWP is open. There is no marked boundary between LCWP/El Moro (that i'm aware of, anyway), and nothing stating you're entering a closed area. My guess is that the rangers know that any ticket recipient would stand a good chance of winning in court, since closure signage is absent on many entry points to the park. Disclaimer: i'm not advocating breaking the law, jusy sayin'.

I rode LCWP today, and it was awesome.

 

I dont understand the point you are making. Are you saying if the park is open but the trails are not in good condition we should avoid them? That is agreeable and I felt like the park was not ready for riding but I trusted the trails were ok because I thought the park was open. I don't think there is a rider out there that would have not rode if the park was open no matter what condition the trails are in.
The system is very confusing and I hope I didn't leave the impression that I only ride not to get tickets. I certainly did not know the ticket was that much money. If the park is going to impose a fee due to closure then I would say the burden is on the park to make the public aware.

 

I totally agree that there is confusion about when the parks are open and when they are closed at some points of entry. I'm only saying that even if the park is open, if I think there is potential for trail damage, I will avoid that trail. It would be a perfect world if everyone felt the same and everyone was aware of the potential damage, but it's not and a lot of riders just don't know.
Let's try to get the word out.

 

Different parks and different soils cause different reactions following rain.

For what it's worth, El Moro is basically made out of sand and very fine dust. No matter what the weather has been, there are always deep tire tracks left behind and there are lots of semi-permanent mud tracks all over the place at any given time.

I have been there several times and the park was wide open full of people yet the soil was still very wet in many areas and there were muddy tracks from riders who went through earlier. I think it's pretty nigh hard to tell whether it's ok to ride there or not save for when it's very obviously still wet after it just rained the day before or so.

The best policy is to:

1) simply post signs at all entrances when the park is closed; best thing to do would be to use those fire danger signs and add a mark at the far left that says "park closed due to poor trail conditions" -- there are lots of people who don't know about websites for mountain biking or numbers to call or no riding after rain policies -- failing that, a simple permanent wooden sign with a hinged cover that says the same thing when the cover is open would be great.

2) have ONE hotline for all OC parks, you call one number and it tells you which parks are closed, if any. From there, they can add a menu system to be connected directly to a specific park. I've tried calling individual park numbers in the past and it's a crap shoot.

As for getting the word out, I think that's what vonvon was already doing.

 

I know it is confusing especially when one park is open and the other is closed. From Ridge Park Laguna Coast Wilderness Park there are a few ways to access El Moro. The two main ways are fireroads that requires you to go thru gates...the obvious place to have closed signs.

A more permanent solution is need, maybe have permanent signs like the state uses when roads are closed or chains are required. You know the ones that turn and and be locked in place. The temporary barricades placed in the road do not seem to be working well. If the park wants a case to hold up in court they need to be prepared to spend the day at the courthouse and defend their practices. "A MTBer tore down the sign" and "they did not call first" will not pass the smell test. If I was ticketed riding a area I thought was open because of lack of current easily accessed info provided by the park, I would fight it in court.

I truly hope the park comes up with a better way to get the message out other than threatening MTBers with tickets and telling them to inform others of the closures...weak sauce.

Dean

 

good point, but actually there is. if you enter from ridge park, you are in LCWP, to get into el morro/crystal you have to cross the other gates, the wooden one's that have a 'bike entrance' to the side.

 

The parks can put the plan into action and pay for it with money form the stimulus.
I heard Obama has 5 billion earmarked just for trails in the US...:lol:

 

I look at the road washed out in the above picture. That damage is caused by lack of proper care. When OC Fire comes thru in the Spring and grades the roads, they only care about getting there trucks in and out during fire season. OC Fire does not pay any attention to water flow during the winter. The state does some water diversion work but they don't do one very important thing that people that have owned and worked on ranches do. That is put on your rubber boots and rain gear and walk the roads while it is raining. A couple shovel fulls of dirt it the right place may have saved that road and many dollars to repair it.

Dean

 

That is helpful information, thanks.

However, there was nothing at those gates indicating that entry was prohibited. If the park is closed due to muddy conditions, the vast majority of MTBers are willing to respect the closure (it's sensible, afterall). The rangers are responsible for placing signs at all legal entrances though, or they shouldn't be surprised when people mistakenly enter the park.

 

They will just say someone tore it down if its not there. Why not some sort of cable and lock across the enterance that would make it pretty obvious and also make it harder to get in.:?:

 

Really curious that one can receive a fine in El Moro for riding trails that are presumed "legal" since they aren't marked otherwise or jump the fence and access patently "illegal" trails (I wouldn't do it) in the conservancy with impunity. Seems as though Aliso and LCWP go out of their way to keep their parks open; both indicated they were open by 7:00 AM Wednesday, the day after the last rain.

 

I checked with OCparks.com and called the station. LWCP is open today. I asked about el morro and the person I spoke to said, "I don't know." You would think the two parks might just take a moment to communicate with each other, but they don't. I called Cystal Cove State Park and the answering machine said the trail was CLOSED. Here is the info for that station:
Crystal Cove State Park
8471 PCH
Laguna Beach CA
949-494-3539 or 949-492-0802
Also known as El Moro Canyon in northern Laguna Beach.

Does anyone know where the dividing line is between the parks?

 

I am glad that LCWP does not follow CCSP lead. LCWP seems to always open days before CCSP. If they talk and open at the same time I fear that it will delay opening LCWP.

Dean

 

El Moro closed

Just got off the phone with the ranger, he told me the back country is closed. He also said "it looks like it is going to rain again next week, so I don't know when it will be open again".
Sounds to me like they are trying out a new way to close the State budget deficit.....writing a bunch of those $250.00 tickets to unsuspecting MTBers!!!

 

Just out of fairness to the park rangers, today while riding LCWP with some friends, I did notice a sign attached to the entrance to Moro Ridge FR (at Bommer). So, it is indeed marked now from the Laguna side, and we saw two ranger trucks on Bommer FR.