I see alot of nice parts coming in from over seas myself. And I see some crap being made right here. Just because it says made in USA does not mean it's a good part. And yes, that tends to bum me out from time to time.
Sad but true While I would not say that this is the trend overall, US manufacuturing sometimes sucks compared to Asia. There is a decided trend that we are losing ground in this deal. I think our culture is forgeting how to do things. We emphasize leadership, and other more sinister qualities over skill, craft, or even brains or knowledge. We still have plenty of exceptions.
I think it's this We are pretty good up to some volume level, then our quality or delivery times go to crap compared to Asia.
Even some of the components of their shocks and forks are now TW made also....right next to the maverick stuff.....
Many of the good Taiwan welders actually make a pretty decent wage, and after you've welded a few thousand frames you get to be pretty damn good. Funny though, the best welders I have ever seen are in Vietnam, they lay down some of the best beads out there. I used to deal with the guys from Sporttech when they were in Laguna hills,those guys could build a frame!!!! I think the used to build overflow for Turner and Intense, as well as AMP. Last I heard they we're up in La Habra.
.. Sporttech puts down some really nice weld beads, we had a few batches of EVOs welded up there a while back.
Well, consumer electronics seem to be different than high end bikes given what you have said. Consumer eletronics ARE cheaper to make overseas. I don't see much carbon fiber on Chumbas, so that shouldn't play a part. If the costs and quality are the same, I still don't see why you have them made overseas. You are the one who said costs are the same and quality is great, so I am not trying to put words in your mouth or be a jerk about it. Just trying to understand because cost and quality would obviously be the balance that businesses measure.
Alank, thanks for the response. That really puts some light on the subject for me. Bottom line: Even though some of the processes are comparable in cost, overall it IS cheaper outside the US. I suppose as wages go up for these high quality welders in Taiwan there will be a tipping point at which it will be come more economical to fabricate is the US? I wonder, are some of the processes more expensive in the US because of those pesky guys at the EPA? If you where to make the best frame you possibly could, without regard to cost or national bias, where would you do that?
.. Again, I never said that they are the "same." I said that they are "comparable." Tani pretty much hit the nail on the head when he said as quantities increase in the U.S. so do delivery and quality problems. Hope that helps. Also, just because you don't see any carbon fiber now - doesn't mean that there aren't things in the works. : )
.. Hi Katon, Thanks for your thoughtful question. Honestly, you have to look at national economies and the industries that are supported by the governments and the populace. Unfortunately, bicycles don't get nearly as much attention in the U.S. as other more lucrative manufacturing sectors like aerospace. In Taiwan, the government actually subsidizes research and development and helps establish national manufacturing standards and techniques, encouraging the growth and sophistication of the industry. I could go on and on, and literally write an essay, but I will keep it short as I have a million things to do for work. Maybe we could get together for a ride and we can talk more then. A.
You actually said it might be cheaper to make frames in the US. I work with domestic manufacturers every day and I don't buy that all domestic manufacturing is plagued with delivery and quality problems at higher volumes. Sure, some manufacturers are, but that is true all over the world. So I guess cost is not the same when sourcing from overseas, which is what I thought. This makes sense given the costs of running a business in the US. But don't pretend that Chumba is not saving money by outsourcing fabrication to Asia. You guys are not foolish, if it was cheaper to manufacture here in the US, you probably would do that. I know you are trying to maintain a brand image and for a long time that brand image included domestic manufacturing. Now you have to sell the idea that the Asian made bikes are just as good if not better. That may in fact be true, I don't know, but this is still a cost driven decision in my eyes. Keep up the good work. There are many fans of Chumba out there and it must be because you deliver what your customers want.
.. Thanks for the kind words. You are right in the sense that cost does play a factor, I will be the first one to point out that we are a business. One of CHUMBA's goals is to provide the best-performing bicycles at prices that people can afford. I would only qualify that per-unit manufacturing cost was not the deciding factor for our decision in this case.
Is it even technically possible to own a FS bike made of new parts that is 100% fabricated in the US?
Yes, but you could literally buy an airplane for what that would cost. Basically, if you've got the skills, there are US companies that can pay more than the bike industry. People here do bikes for the lifestyle and for the craft. We are a rich enough country to think that way, and that mindset can drive the scalability issues that were mentioned. The typical Taiwan-based bike company is at the heart of their country's national industrial policy, and behaves that way. Also worth noting is the fact that Taiwanese talent is getting more expensive, forcing companies over there to have to send less complicated work over to the mainland. And when China gets too expensive, I'd start looking at places like Botswana to start industrializing. (edit) Just noticed Katonk's avatar. Did you get the memo about the TPS reports?
Actually, the prices between China and Taiwan are a lot closer than many people realize, labor laws, inceased standard of living, and the new tax laws that China has introduced recently are driving cost up. Many manufacturers are moving production back to Taiwan, or to other Southern Asian countries. People like Kona are going to Malaysia. And the current favorite for the UK is Cambodia. Crazy but true....maybe soon it will become more viable to move frame production back to the US.
