Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham on New-Earth Creationism

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by Garrett, Feb 4, 2014.

  1. Andy

    Andy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2012
    Messages:
    267
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    Which brings us neatly back to the first post. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6kgvhG3AkI

    It would seem "education" is losing.

    According to this - http://adultthought.ucsd.edu, under "Anti-Science: Creationism and Stupidification" (near the end) -

    Surveys of introductory courses at UCSD show that about 40% of our students are Creationists, believing that the Earth is 6,000 years old, that humans did not arise from evolutionary processes, or that humans were contemporary with dinosaurs.

    Do they arrive at class also believing the Earth is flat? That the sun orbits the Earth? That the moon is a warm object? That there's an ocean above the sky?

    This is also on the UCSD site - http://adultthought.ucsd.edu/culture_war/aps_backpage_id_100518.html FROM 2005!

    Even Pat Robertson doesn't believe it - http://www.salon.com/2014/02/05/pat_robertson_begs_ken_ham_to_shut_up/
    (although I suspect his reasons for saying so)

    I do know a family who are proud of their creationist views, and proud when their six year old daughter stands up in class and says she believes the Earth is 6,000 years old

    People, this crap REALLY NEEDS TO STOP. Please.
     
  2. Garrett

    Garrett Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,861
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Chico
    The problem I have is when kids are taught to question science because of what the Bible teaches rather than to reconsider the Bible because of what scientific evidence offers.
     
  3. ScottQ

    ScottQ Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2014
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    I addressed all of your scientific inaccuracies to a fair degree. I don't think you know what ad hominem means. I hardly think trying to carry out a debate on religion qualifies me as a bigot or a zealot, but whatever helps you sleep at night. Cheers.
     
  4. bumpas

    bumpas New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Sorry, maybe my fault. #-o
     
  5. herzalot

    herzalot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2008
    Messages:
    4,754
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    EdgeUCater
    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    OK, that took me a second, but I really did laugh out loud!
     
  6. jae2460

    jae2460 Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    1,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Human beings are flawed and manage to screw everything up--whether that's Science or Religion.

    There are both religious zealots AND scientific zealots. I don't believe that zealots, on either side of the argument, have a place in a meaningful debate. I don't care for Bill Maher anymore than I do Rick Santorum, etc.

    Einstein, while not believing in a "personal god" had some interesting beliefs and typically referred to himself as an agnostic and said he practiced a humility towards the concept of a God (not a God that intervenes in personal human destinies).

    But Einstein did state that "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

    In an interview published in 1930 in G. S. Viereck's book Glimpses of the Great, Einstein, in response to a question about whether or not he believed in God, explained:
    ...[A] question [about God] is the most difficult in the world. It is not a question I can answer simply with yes or no. I am not an Atheist. ... The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. ... The human mind, no matter how highly trained, cannot grasp the universe. We are in the position of a little child, entering a huge library whose walls are covered to the ceiling with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written those books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books, a mysterious order, which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of the human mind, even the greatest and most cultured, toward God. We see a universe marvelously arranged, obeying certain laws, but we understand the laws only dimly. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that sways the constellations. I am fascinated by Spinoza's Pantheism. I admire even more his contributions to modern thought. Spinoza is the greatest of modern philosophers, because he is the first philosopher who deals with the soul and the body as one, not as two separate things."

    Einstein also was quoted as saying:

    "You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being."
     
  7. wheeler

    wheeler Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
  8. skyungjae

    skyungjae Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    Messages:
    478
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Occupation:
    Federal Investigator
    Location:
    Fullerton
  9. scan

    scan Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    445
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Occupation:
    occupational therapist
    Location:
    alta loma
    Einstein, one of the greatest minds had the humility to accept our place in this universe! We are such little creatures in this vast universe yet still have the arrogance to think we can figure it all out.





     
  10. ScottQ

    ScottQ Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2014
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    I would like to think of it as ambition and a yearning to understand rather than arrogance.
     
  11. Revalimage

    Revalimage Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    4,547
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    Entertainment Production
    Location:
    Mission Viejo
    TLDNR - BUT, the few I have read in this forum are SAD, very sad. I have ridden with many of you and KNOW you are not this intolerant in person.

    The demeaning and contrive tone of both sides of this are shameful!!!!

    Especially in a MTB related forum. I will stay away from threads like this..as I've somewhat pulled away from this site, as it has become a personal play zone of a few and a bit WAY of topic at times -- and just really not necessary. I'm looking for friends to ride with and help me learn more about riding my bike.

    If I want to go into a mix of political and polarizing topics, I look elsewhere...BTW folks 'The Pub' where non-bike related stuff is posted, look back many years ago, it was originally created for things like; 'what beer do you like' or are you selling a couch for a good deal to friends. Not spew that divides people, more than our society and government already do for us now.



    Personally, I LOVE the amazing and different friends, coworkers and people I have come into contact with that have VERY DIFFERENT world views than my own. I personally feel that I'm a much more understanding -- and therefore better person -- because of this. To have the opportunity to hear them share and learn from another's perspective is SPECIAL, and we should treat those that open up to us as such, special and unique. If their way, conflicts with mine, I have the choice to seek the answer to why I hold the position that I do .. or not. Yet, I do NOT in any way discount their position, albeit different from mine.

    My personal 'choice' some call a religion (I call it a relationship) teaches ME nothing but compassion and love...towards EVERYONE, those that don't believe the same as me, AND those that do that are 'zealots' on EITHER side of ANY fence. I choose to accept you just as you are, I don't have to 'approve' -- as it's not my life and not my choice. But, I DO CHOOSE to value YOU, special and unique for who you are.

    Please choose your words from your keyboard, as you would in person - not as venom, but as encouragement.





    MY Personal contribution to this Thread - wanted to post this on the first page...

    When you're bashing away at folks, and you do not use proper spellings or grammar, you appear 'ignorant' or uneducated. Proof read - not just verbal vomit. Just saying' #-o

    ig·no·rant

    adjective1.lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.

    2.uninformed; unaware.

    3.due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.


    un·ed·u·ca·ted

    adjective1.not having been educated to a good standard: poor uneducated people


     
  12. badgas

    badgas I like dirt

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    656
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    The OC

    ^^ Great post
     
  13. scan

    scan Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    445
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Occupation:
    occupational therapist
    Location:
    alta loma
    (ScottQ) Yes yearning to understand, like Einstein, yet another level of understanding that we are limited in our understanding. Clear as mud? haha. I beleive in Life long learning/understanding. I think we agree.
     
  14. herzalot

    herzalot Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2008
    Messages:
    4,754
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    EdgeUCater
    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Is this not also the name of your fitness regimen and diet? I think I may be replacing my P90x with Mo-Slim!
     
  15. jae2460

    jae2460 Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    1,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Ambition and yearning to understand are fine, admirable attributes, as long as they are balanced with Humility--the willingness to accept the possiblity that you are wrong and listening with an open mind to the other side, to people who believe the opposite that you believe.

    Too many people these days, on both sides of any topic, are looking for ways to shut out the opposition, to quiet the voices from the other side of the hall rather than to understand what it is they believe and why, or at least to try to.
     
  16. Revalimage

    Revalimage Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    4,547
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    Entertainment Production
    Location:
    Mission Viejo
    First, 'possibility' -- check your spelling #-o

    Why would you have to be 'wrong' in order to see another's view? Everyone, yes everyone will have some belief different than yours - it is based on their world view, life as they have experienced it so far. Would that make everyone wrong in some way just because they don't believe as you do?

    Personally, I believe no. I feel it serves you as empathy, caring for another.
     
  17. Danimal

    Danimal Gary the Cat

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,441
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Mission Viejo
    My spelling and grammar is less than ideal, to be polite about it.
    I'm ok with someones misspellings and poor grammar as long as the subject a person is trying to convey is moderately understandable.


    'nough said, I'm gonna go shred some knar. ( oops, gnar )
    What this really means is "I'm going for a ride, probably whiting, and hope I don't fall".
     
  18. wheeler

    wheeler Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2012
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Had to watch that video again....WOW...just WOW

    "I believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old because I am a Christian and that is what the Bible says"

    Ok good enough for me!

    There is a family in our community that home schools their kids and shelters them from the outside world. One of the kids asked the dad "Eve was created from the rib of Adam right dad?" The dad...."That's what it says in the bible".

    Crazy.....
     
  19. sirsam84

    sirsam84 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2007
    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    Einstein was probably a deist, similar to Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, and many other Founding Fathers. A fine point, but Deists are convinced that there is a prime mover, based upon the complexity we see in the world (design argument, teleological argument) vs agnostics who are not sure.
     
  20. Garrett

    Garrett Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,861
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Chico
    I think the real question we have yet to answer here is what would Jesus say about 650b? All marketing? The next big thing?
     

Share This Page

Help keep STR alive, please click the donation button below