Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham on New-Earth Creationism

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by Garrett, Feb 4, 2014.

  1. bing!

    bing! Active Member

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    that or meteors and comets either created the conditions or planted the first life forms on this here ball of dirt.
    http://news.discovery.com/space/ast...meteorite-primordial-chemical-life-130910.htm
     
  2. me and my bike

    me and my bike New Member

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    One last one and im done

    Religious-Reason.jpg
     
  3. bing!

    bing! Active Member

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    well if youre going to be insulting,

    pity the folks who barely have a middle school understanding of science, yet find it necessary to put down religion to feel better about themselves.

    any fool can criticize, condemn and complain, and most fools do - Ben Franklin
     
  4. Danimal

    Danimal Gary the Cat

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    It's House, it's a characters statement not a real person, and his character is a prick.
     
  5. dcrfx

    dcrfx Member

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    Now that House has set things straight about religion can we talk about gun rights, abortion, gay marriage, legal pot, (or pick your favorite controversial topic that no one on the internet will likely ever sway your opinion of).

    edit/add: Maybe too harsh, some good discussion and thinking points in this thread that I enjoyed reading. Not sure who said, paraphrased, "bias and prejudice is just a short cut to thinking" .....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2014
  6. me and my bike

    me and my bike New Member

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    The funny part is that im muslim and practice islam daily. Just a bit more educated and modernized;). Topics like evolution isnt a thing and man must marry women was fine back in the 18th and 19th century because people didnt know better. Its the 21st century though, so its time to have an open mind.
     
  7. bumpas

    bumpas New Member

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    So than you are not practicing Islam, but your own religion.
     
  8. me and my bike

    me and my bike New Member

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    Yes its called MOslim
     
  9. bing!

    bing! Active Member

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    Agreed. I just don't see the need to put anyone down. if a person finds fulfillment in believing in unicorns, who are we to judge?
     
  10. bumpas

    bumpas New Member

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    I am n the fence about unicorns.
     
  11. bing!

    bing! Active Member

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    looking over your arguments, you appear to doubling down on your own understanding of the universe which is different from the current accepted theories of space, time and beginning of the universe. More power to you.The included link is from CERN. It can't get more definitive than that. You attribute it to saying the big bang was an explosion? Read it once again.. "The Big Bang was like no explosion you might witness on earth today."

    If you review what I have said on here, not once did I say that creationism is an alternative to evolution. As a matter of fact, it's very clear that "evolution of the species" does not delve into the origin of life. Why anyone would think evolution explains the origin of life leads me to suspect some confusion in that argument.

    you say eugenics is not science? That's like saying lobotomy is not medicine. When a branch of scientific study falls in disrepute, it losses credibility. But can you say it was not science? I think not. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aso/databank/entries/dh23eu.html

    "Within 20 years, the word was widely used by scientists who had rediscovered the work of Gregor Mendel. Mendel had meticulously recorded the results of cross-breeding pea plants, and found a very regular statistical pattern for features like height and color. This introduced the concept of genes, opening the field of genetics to a tumultuous century of research. One path of genetic research branched off into the shadows of social theory, and in the first quarter of the twentieth century became immensely popular as eugenics."

    you wanna have your cake, and eat it too. The foibles of science are to be forgotten and yet the mistakes of religion are to be set in stone. Smh.
     
  12. jae2460

    jae2460 Active Member

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    There are plenty of brilliant minds who are alive today and throughout history that are much smarter than anyone posting on this thread. So anyone insinuating that religious people aren't religious or intelligent are oversimplifying things and aren't contributing anything to the debate. There are plenty of examples to the contrary and there are plenty of zealot scientists.
     
  13. jasonmason

    jasonmason inebriate savant

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    If we want to have a meaningful discussion, let's not start with humans; that subject is too emotionally charged.

    Would you be willing to start with a discussion about a different species? I am still curious to hear YOUR definition of a 'transitory species'.
     
  14. bumpas

    bumpas New Member

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    Unicorns:?: ... I can't think of any others right now
     
  15. ScottQ

    ScottQ Member

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    The link was from the Exploratorium, which is a children's science museum in San Francisco.

    I never said you said it was. Evolution doesn't even try to explain the origin of life, but it explains the diversification of it, which you think you've found a fault with because you don't understand the Cambrian Explosion.

    Eugenics was presented as "science" but did not adhere to a valid scientific method, lacked supporting evidence and plausibility, and was not reliably tested to any extent. And a five paragraph excerpt from PBS.org is not, by any standards, evidence that eugenics was ever accepted as a sound science. It was immensely controversial even at the height of its popularity. It says that right in your own link. And Gregor Mendel was a geneticist. Eugenics and genetics are not the same thing.

    For all intents and purposes the "mistakes" of religion might as well be set in stone because despite scientific evidence to the contrary (often overwhelmingly so) on an immense number of topics, the stance of the church remains mostly unchanged on all of them, namely: geology, astronomy, evolution, genetics, the origins of life and the universe, medicine, human rights, and sexuality.
     
  16. herzalot

    herzalot Well-Known Member

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    BOOM...drops the mic and walks off...

    :clap:
     
  17. bing!

    bing! Active Member

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    The ignorance towards people of faith is something I see all the time. I'm not sure if it's willful ignorance, or just plain bigotry.

    "The Church has been called by some the largest single and longest-term patron of science in history. Indeed, the church funds many of the world's hospitals and medical facilities. Yet science and the church have a somewhat checkered history.

    The Church has come a long way from its inauspicious treatment of Galileo Galilei in the 17th century. It now recognizes a theistic form of both cosmic and biological evolution. " - http://www.livescience.com/27790-catholic-church-and-science-history.html

    Ridicule is the new discrimination. Particularly, it's open season on Christians. This discussion for example was pretty straight forward. However, you decided that ad homine attacks on the faithful somehow proves your argument. I simply posed scientific theories and exhibited that they were not complete, as there formulators freely admit, and you somehow see this as an attack? This attitude of "because you believe in a God, I know who you are and what you think" is pretty much a lynching of minds.

    I did not try to convince anyone of my beliefs. I merely tried to see if the few who ridicule the faithful actually had a grasp of the science they speak of. In the end, barely addressing the real scientific arguments, it degenerated into an attack on religion. Figures. Zealots come in all forms. I'm done here. It was fun while it was a real meeting of minds.

    In ending....

    "Einstein's ideas and the Big Bang.

    Today, we understand the Big Bang on the basis of Einstein's revolutionary theory of gravity, which he completed around 1917. Einstein was the first person to realize that empty space is not simply "nothingness" - space has properties of its own. Einstein's theory helps us to picture the expansion of the universe in terms of the stretching of space. That is, new space is continuously coming into existence between galaxies. Thus, the creation of the universe – or at least of the space in the universe – is a continuous process that is still taking place." - http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/seuforum/bb_whatwas.htm

    suggested further readings for the interested - http://books.google.com/books/about/How_the_Catholic_Church_Built_Western_Ci.html?id=zVDR2ZePzvUC
     
  18. GregMiester

    GregMiester Member

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    Christianity in my opinion, has created it's own "open season" on itself. I was born into this religion, with my own mother still practicing til this day. But as a kid I quickly realized the blind following these institutions had, a cult like potential, with people not interested in questioning what was being told to them. Ultimately, you have entire congregations believing what the one guy at the MIC believes and that is a scary situation. I find hypocrisy, double standards, discrimination to be the norm with the way many churches and their followers interpret the bible and pass judgement on others. The conflict occurs when public/social policy is based off a bible that not everyone believes or agrees with. Christians have the right to believe anything they want, but to impose those beliefs on others is where the problems arise. If Christianity wishes to end this "open season" on itself, it's members should refrain from passing laws that discriminate against other americans, and stay out of politics entirely.

    **Edit - I quoted the parts of your post I am responding to, removed the others.
     
  19. bing!

    bing! Active Member

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    what you say is true. however, all disciplines are subject to fanaticism. christianity is no exception. the question is, do you throw the baby with the bath water? keep the "love they neighbor" and skip the other parts. that way, you keep your faith personal, and not repressive.
     
  20. GregMiester

    GregMiester Member

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    The fanatics of christianity are the ones the public sees and not enough of the "love thy neighbor" crowd. There needs to be a stronger presence of level headedness type members who take on a welcoming position and not a us vs them stance. I don't see the Church as a victim of anything other than having overstepped it's boundries with the younger generations. Younger people have been taught to question and form conclusions, some might say they've been "indoctrinated", I say they have been educated.

    All that being said, I agree, faith should be kept personal.
     

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