Is Klein a good bike brand?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by avilabrands, Aug 26, 2011.

  1. avilabrands

    avilabrands Member

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    I have a friend that is looking to get in to the sport. He's shopping around for a bike and he asked me if this was a good deal... http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/bik/2565276410.html

    I've never heard of the brand but I'm new to all this so there's many brands I've never heard of. If anyone could help and let me know so I can pass on the info that would be great.

    Thanks everyone
     
  2. jcw

    jcw New Member

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    yeah, I've got one
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    I like old Kleins...
     
  3. dstepper

    dstepper (R.I.P.) Over the hill

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    Was popular not so much now I had to look them up to see if they are still in business..even that did not tell me much.

    Dean
     
  4. strobe

    strobe resident noob

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    I used to really want a Klein. They were pretty light (at least compared to any bike i could afford back then) and i liked the through frame cable routing. According to the Klein registration, i think they are owned by Trek now.

    Watch episodes of Seinfeld, he had one hanging in the hall next to the bathroom.
     
  5. NA1NSXR

    NA1NSXR Member

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    Klein was a top tier brand in the 90's. Wikipedia says they've since been swallowed up by Trek. The bike in the ad looks ok I guess. Probably a good deal for the money, but to a certain extent, whenever looking at older bikes, you have to factor in the progress made over the years. TOday's SLX is really somewhere between XT and XTR (at least in function if not weight) back when LX was blue, just by virtue of all the trickle down tech.
     
  6. fos'l

    fos'l Member

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    Klein was an excellent (TO ME) brand. The bike looks clean, and if so, it's a good deal. Plus, the guy might have wiggle room.
     
  7. 2wheel_lee

    2wheel_lee Active Member

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    That's a 10 year old bike (funny, the same guy is asking $550 in another listing for that bike).

    The parts are all basically entry level. While the bike is an ok bike, and the price isn't bad, I'm not sure I'd be so quick to jump on it (not to say that you can't jump this bike ;) )

    As soon as he wants to replace stuff like the fork and possible worn out drivetrain components, he could easily be into the cost to buy another comparable new bike from a bike shop.

    Parts listing:
    http://www.realmtb.com/services/browse_ads/product.php?product_id=140
     
  8. Salespunk

    Salespunk New Member

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    Klein's are great frames. The problem is that the aluminum hardens over time. If the bike gets ridden hard it WILL crack fairly soon. That is why so many of the classic Yetis, Manitous (have one hanging in my garage), etc don't get ridden now. Big tube, thin wall aluminum frames have a shelf life.
     
  9. Rockinthecasbah

    Rockinthecasbah A.D.D. Unleased

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    Aluminum hardens over time? Care to clarify?

    Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
     
  10. NA1NSXR

    NA1NSXR Member

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    That is not true. Aluminum does not have a "shelf life". You can leave an aluminum bike alone in perpetuity and its strength will not degrade. What degrades the strength of old aluminum frames to the point of failure is fatigue from actual frame usage, and even that is the result of old design.
     
  11. Pain Freak

    Pain Freak Dead or Alive

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    True. Sat on a shelf, aluminum will have an indefinite span life but when used, every time it stresses from use it builds in fatigue and eventually it'll crack and fail. Most aluminum mountain bikes are consider to last between 7 to 10 years with moderate to heavy use.

    The Klein is old and in it's day was a top bike with some of the best paint jobs ever seen on a mountain bike. But it's not a good buy because like Lee said for a few dollars more you can get a more modern bike with better working components.
     
  12. strobe

    strobe resident noob

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    How many "few dollars more" can you get a better sub-30lb full suspension bike. I wonder how much the frame alone weighs and if its got mounts for discs.
     
  13. bing!

    bing! Active Member

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    I wouldnt buy a 20 year old aluminum frame unless you can see plainly see that it has not been used too much or abused. Aluminum doesnt deteriorate with age. It is subject to stress metal fatigue more than steel.

    A good inspection should tell you what you need to know. Dings, dents, deep gouges, any signs that the bike has taken a bunch of hits is not a good sign. Take a note of what components the bike was sold with originally. If it has the original stuff, the level of wear on chain, chain rings, derailleurs pulleys, cage etc. will tell you how much that bike was ridden. Signs of possible cracking on the seat post mean the bike has been ridden hard. Weathered paint and rusting means the last owner didnt care much for the bike. I'd avoid those. You want something that's been hanging in a garage since it was bought :)

    If youre riding XC and won't be bombing down the hills, a lightly used Klein should do you well. The ad is gone so I couldnt see the bike. I don't think new parts will serve you much more than old ones. I ride a bike with a Shimano M730 group set from the 1980s. With a fresh chain, is shifts just as good as a 10 speeder. Older well designed and manufactured frames can also outperform low to mid range bikes.

    When buying used, you should get a lot better value for your money. This is accounting for risk of parts failure and no warranty. Personally, I wouldnt spend more than 300-400 on an excellent lightly used older bike with a lot of desirability. I like to buy mine around 150 to 250 for 80s to mid 90s if I need to do work on it and replace parts like tires, cables, brake pads and rebuild shocks.

    Comparably, last years mid-level 1000 dollar Specialized, Trek, Cannondale, Giant and Kona should be available for around 600-800.
     
  14. Salespunk

    Salespunk New Member

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    I am not a metallurgist by any stretch of the imagination, but my understanding is that a T6 hardening is artificial aging through a heating and cooling process. The move to 7000 series aluminum was precipitated by movement of frame manufacturing overseas since it will harden over time without the heating and cooling process. See the explanation of hardening processes here where it is described as an artificial aging process:

    http://www.engineersedge.com/aluminum_tempers.htm

    Heat tempering ovens are also called aluminum aging ovens

    http://www.itsllcusa.com/AluminumAgingOven.htm

    Understand that the hardening over time is very subtle, but it will result in cracking of frames very quickly on a 25 year old bike since the material becomes brittle. The only reason I know any of this is because of some processes my employer uses for testing product lifespans.

    Either way I would not touch an aluminum bike over 5 years old just since you don't know the usage history.
     
  15. Varaxis

    Varaxis Trail Ninja

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    After reading up on it from a number of good source, I believe if you regularly ride it on a rough trail, then alu will fatigue and fail within 10 years. 5 years for more regular riders and maybe 2 years for obsessive riders. I was riding a '99 Schwinn Homegrown Factory XT up until about a year ago and was riding it up on real mountains. It had at least 5k trail miles on it and another 15k pavement/side of the road/fireroad miles before I sold it, and it's still being ridden, since I'm friends with the guy I sold it to.

    Maybe a difference was that was a quality bike, made by Yeti, with top of the line components. Versus a bike with questionably lightweight frame with fairly large diameter tubing and thin walls?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    One of the last trips I had on it: https://picasaweb.google.com/Danvu81/20100508_MtBeacon?authuser=0&feat=directlink

    Some info on things they do to metal to improve it here: http://www.metalimprovement.com/
     
  16. ManInAShed

    ManInAShed New Member

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    Thats not a small question you asked.

    Klein WAS the premiere designer & builder of aluminum alloy frames, moreso than any other company. The work they put into those bikes back then is unthinkable in today's market. Gary Klein started & ran the company in the engineering dept of MIT, & even Easton had quite a lot of catching up to do years later, when they built their 7000-series Program and Varilite tubesets, which do air-harden, that everyone from Manitou & Yeti to Balance & GT used and which would famously crack due to too-thin Headtubes and seat tubes. Kleins, however, used the more ductile, relatively heavier, heat-treated 6061, and plenty of it, brazed it, oversized everything, hand-drawn butting & formed square-to-round stays, re-engineered the frame, fork, headset, stem, & bar from the ground up as a unified structure... the list of contributions Klein made to the now-standard mountain bike is long. ...and man were they freakin fast. Stiff as hell, low/forward positioning, quick handling, total race rockets. Original Kleins are going on 20 years old now, breakages are exceedingly rare, and they are among the most desirable & valuable bikes in the world.

    And that presence is why Trek bought the brand in 95. I was a designer at Trek at the time, and we were really optimistic that Trek would provide them with the financial backing to continue innovating, as well as buy us the opportunity to work with & learn from Gary & his team. Management quickly developed other plans. Gary was out. Trek used up the remaining materials stock, watering down each model by trickle-up, & then simply rebadged Fishers, devaluing the whole brand until it was dead. Still fine bikes, but if you want a Fisher, you might as well just buy a Fisher. As of a few years ago, they'd pulled the brand from U.S. Distribution, & half-heartedly strung along sales in europe.

    The Klein story is one of the bike industries bigger head-smacking legends of how big clueless companies buying little ones for some credibility can go so horribly wrong. So much that this point, there is a petition in the industry and branching out, to bring Gary Klein back into building bikes again, to which he recently agreed if there is sufficient interest. Many of the old Klein crew have stepped forward in support. Very exciting.




    Quick note. You'll see on eBay and craigslist, that while sellers are aware that pre-trek Kleins are worth many times what Trek kleins are, invariably they'll state that whatever year theirs is, was the last year before the buyout. Up through 94 is Klein, 95 & up is Trek, don't let anybody BS you.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Klein-Adroi...untain_Bikes&hash=item3cbab47e4b#ht_500wt_922

    ...and it's not even in great shape.


    Have a look:
    http://www.oldklein.com/klein.htm
     
  17. El Rolo

    El Rolo its just ahead

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    Wow! I still have my wife's 91 pinnacle in the garage. I probably ruined it's value With a manitou III and by upgrading the shifters and derailuers but man, that androit is selling for over twice the retail of a new in 1992. she hasn't ridden it for over 10 years but even when she rode it, it was her baby...hardly a scratch on it.
     
  18. A D NOH

    A D NOH Custom Newbie Title

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    Kleins aren't too inspiring. A guy I know named Jerry had one hanging on the wall in his apartment and I never saw him ride it!
     
  19. Monster Mash

    Monster Mash New Member

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    I still have my 1990 Klein Pinnacle Elite. It's my wife's bike now but the Manitou II fork bumpers have all rotted. I'm probably going to turn it into a full rigid SS....
     
  20. Chewyeti

    Chewyeti Circus Bear

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    had an old klein pulse II. scary, thin, reynolds wrap aluminum. SUPER light, giant tubing.

    rode pretty rough!
     

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