Nightmare: An impossible customer? Or is it the LBS's fault?

I disagree. We can offer our support. He gave a explanation of the situation. People then chime in with "your way out of line" or "the bike shop should fix these problems". I see no harm. He can then decide to push for more remediation, or less if everyone says he's out of line. He's not asking for a solution necessarily. Besides, this may be educational for some of us. Maybe will this will help me have a reference for my expectations of my LBS.

Furthermore, I'm not sure there should be a reluctance to call out the shop, as long as the OP is willing to describe how the matter was resolved in the end. Then people can make a decision about how the situation was handled and decide if the shop is a place where they would like to shop.

 

for sure!8-[

 

That shop sounds like they've got slimey used car sales men working for them. In other words they're being polite to your face while trying to pull one over on you. If they don't disclose to you ahead of time what parts they are going to subsitute and get your ok, they're trying to see what they can get away with. The fact alone that they told you that a 185mm rotor wouldn't work so they upgraded to a 205mm is is a flat out lie!! It could be the other way around due to clearance issues with a bigger rotor. They just didn't have the right adaptor or something. If I where you, I'd return the bike and get my money back because this is more than likely only the begining of your problems with that bike shop. IMO, once proven a liar allways a liar, Phuq em.

 

I'm really curious to hear a shop owner's or employee's perspective on this. I know at least one or two shops have employees that spend time on here. So I hope to at least hear a perspective from some of them.

So, pretend I came out and revealed it was your shop. How would you respond to what I've said? Do you think my expectations are unreasonable?

 

Actually, this is not true. The Wotan is designed to take a > 200mm rotor only.

 

I don't know that I entirely understand your situation. It sounds a bit like a clearancey sort of thing, and your expectation may therefore be a bit high. If you want a brand new, everything perfect bike, you pay full freight.

 

We would not substitute parts without alerting the customer ahead of time. We will from time to time substitute a part if it didn't fit, we got the wrong part, or did not have the part temporarily until we can get that correct part. This way you can at least ride the bike.

If you bought an '09 kit......that that is what you should get. Unless the description said "used, clearance, stratched" you should expect the parts to be in new condition.

Yes, sometimes manuf's carry an item over from one year to the next so there is no change.

Look closely at the ad/link/listing for the frame. Make sure it didn't state that the frame was equiped with the Fox Float instead of the DHX. To charge you for a DHX and then try and give you a Float in it's place, only hoping that you didn't catch it, then claiming that they were giving you an upgrade for free, just to cover their ass is just wrong.

You should get exactly what you paid for.

As for the fork issue, the shop should have been more willing to take a look at it/ service it / check it out. Kind of sounds like they didn't want to be bothered.

Sometimes, when buying a complete bike, the specs will change without notification.......but the bike companies print this all over the place.

 

To the people engaging in guessing games: I'm not going to get into any specifics of the bike brand or shop location. Consider that if you make a guess and you're wrong, you could be harming an innocent party. There are lots of bike shops with web sites in Southern California and more than a few manufacturers.

As long as this remains an active customer service issue, I won't be naming names. My main concern was to a) fully document my situation and b) find out if I needed to be brought down to earth about what I should expect when dealing with bike shops.

mtnbikej, your post is very much appreciated! Thank you That's exactly the kind of information I was looking for.

 

I know what shop this is. It's Bait-n-switch cycles in brea. Those scammers have been scamming and switching, switching and scamming for years.

They once advertised a 2004 demo 7 for $1000, when I went to go pick it up they wheeled out a pacific with an extra seat stay welded on WTF?

I got it the owners face and we had words..I think his name was carney or something like that. F-er's.

Bottom line,never buy for a tackle and light switch bicycle shop ever.

 

Yes, the Post mounts on the Wotan are spaced for 203mm and larger rotors only.

 

You say you're posting this issue to find out if you're justified in your stance. Well, without hearing from the LBS we will honestly never know. If it's 100% like you say it is, then I'd be heading to small claims court as you've already given them ample chances to make it right.

 

Yes you are right.

I attempted, as best I could, to present the situation as fairly as possible, and to speak positively and with praise of the shop where I could. I've also attempted to include their viewpoint and position/arguments for most/all of the things I mentioned -- granted I did so sarcastically several times.

I'm sure I've missed some arguments from their point of view that I'm not privy to, or that escaped my attention over the course of it all.

In the meantime, they've contacted me again and we're trying to find a resolution to the situation. With regard to the fork, they agree that it needs to be fixed, but they are not sure they agree I'm entitled to a 2009 fork. The disagreement hinges on the fact that I was shown a BTI catalog with three different Wotans in it: a green, a white, and a black Wotan. They told me I could have the green or white one for less than the black one. I asked them why the green one was less expensive and they said "because apparently no one wants that color as much as the black." In my case, I actually liked the green a bit more than the black. Now as a consumer, if you've just finished discussing with the sales person the plusses and minuses of going with a 2008 or 2009 fork, and you tell the salesperson you'd rather go with the 2009 and order from them, and they show you a catalog full of bright shiny brand new products and tell you which options you have... and when you ask why one is less expensive than another and they say it's due to color demand... and you're about to stretch your budget to make a custom purchase what would your expectations be?

So we'll see how things pan out and I will update this thread again later.

Thanks again to everyone's input.

 

Looks like our guess yesterday was right. The posts have been deleted. :beer:

 

Well it's obvious that you're not satified with the bike or the service and you feel like you got cheated. Wrong parts and poor workmanship should be enough to convince you to return the bike. If you think it's you being too picky... then you should build your replacement bike yourself. Either way... you or the LBS... I think you will never be happy with your current bike.

 

Wow, I just read through this whole thread, incredible! Bottom line, they are a bike shop, that is thier business, they sell, build, maintain bikes, that's it, that is what they are in business for, correct? Bottom line is, they failed you, & continue to fail. I have been building my own bikes, & my friends bikes for years, as a hobby, ordering all my own parts, all custom set-ups, no kits, no BS, no 'special order' this or that & have always had a great outcome. Building bikes is not rocket science, quite easy & fun as a matter of fact. You are putting way too much faith & patience into this company. Get a refund & start over, you will have a much better outcome & in the end will feel much better about your purchase.

My 2c
Stu

 

Please, if you don't plan to help by answering the above questions, please do not reply. This thread is not for discussing brake mounts, guessing the name of the shop, etc.

Stay on topic.

Thank you.

 

That's a very interesting take.

Not sure if you mean I will never be happy with any bike I have, or if you mean with the one I'm trying to resolve right now. I think you meant the latter as the former would be a pretty pessimistic view.

So far, it seems most people, even bike shop owners, agree:

• It's not unusual to expect that a package deal labeled as 2009 should contain only 2009 components or better (or pre-2009 parts would be considered acceptable if the manufacturer had not updated the line for 2009)
• That a bike should not accumulate any damage when it goes in for repairs*
• That no components put on a new bike should be second-hand, returned**, or damaged components without specifically obtaining the customer's informed consent beforehand in return for a closeout price.

Where it gets a little hazier is the question of how 'new' a component has to be to qualify as 'new' when you're buying a new bike. If it's swapped off from another bike that just came in the shop, it sounds like that's fine. But what about if it gets swapped off a bike from 5 years ago and the parts have been sitting around or variously put on display or demo bikes here and there...? I guess most would say that's not fine, and there's a whole lot of gray in between.

Personally, as a customer, I expect all new purchases to come from a sealed bag or box from the manufacturer, whether retail or just wholesale packaging. It sounds from some of the responses here like it may not quite be the case in the biking industry.

The other hazy area, judging from replies here, is when a part is found to be incompatible or unavailable and a substitution has to be made. For incompatible parts, there seems to be no clear answer what 'accepted practice' be, though there does seem to be consensus that the customer should be alerted to the change. What's less clear is whether the customer should be alerted ahead of time and engaged in the decision-making process about finding an alternative since that might be seen as 'bugging the customer too much.'

For unavailable parts, it sounds like the most customer-service driven shops will loan a temporary part, free of charge, until the required one arrives so the customer gets use of the bike in the meantime (in my case, that is what effectively what ended up happening with the rotor, but if that was the intention all along, I was certainly in the dark). The only other alternative being to make the customer wait.

* How much damage is acceptable when a bike (or car or anything) goes in for repairs is an interesting question because clearly, at least at the molecular level, SOME wear and tear from friction is always going to occur when complex machines are taken apart and put back together again. I personally would draw the line at least with: visible damage, damage that affects performance/function whether noticeable or not, and damage that shortens expected life-span.

** When I go to a store (Frys, Target) the opened box and returned items are generally identified as such and have a discount associated with them. Other stores send returns back to the manufacturer who sells them again as refurbished items. Is it any different in the biking industry?

 

You are reasonable in all your assumptions. It is ridiculous that a bike shop would operate in such a manner. The fork should be a warranty issue, resolved by the manufacturer, via the bike shop. You are intitled to full disclosure of parts. If it is pitched as new, it should be new. They should also stand by all there work, and if something happens during wrenching, then they should take care of it....period.

 

I've always maintained that we all make mistakes from time to time, and it's how we deal with them that matters. The same holds true for clients and businesses. I think maybe the most important lesson from experiences like these is that a little communication goes a long way. A few words up front might have saved a lot of trouble.

 

Calzone- "Not sure if you mean I will never be happy with any bike I have, or if you mean with the one I'm trying to resolve right now." Of course I meant the bike you are having troubles with. I'm pretty sure if you build up your own bike or go to a good LBS you'll be happy.