Solar panels.. Worth it?

Discussion in 'The Pub' started by chevrolegs, Aug 13, 2014.

  1. chevrolegs

    chevrolegs Active Member

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    Hoping to get some opinions on solar panels. For those that do have them, is it worth it? Does anyone go through Solar City?

    I just purchased a home built this year, so it's fairly energy efficient. I talked to a solar city rep and what he told me almost seemed too good to be true. For a 20 year lease he said I'd pay a flat rate of 15 cents a kilowatt, no money down, no installation fees, they do all the maintenance, after 5 years they give the option of buying the panels at a discounted price, and if I ever move I can either transfer the lease to the new owners (if they want them) or pay $1000 to have them remove the panels and install them on the new house.

    I keep the AC on 24/7 at 74 degrees and my last bill was $250. My fiancé and I are trying to save up for a wedding so any savings helps.

    what are your thoughts on solar?
     
  2. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors Climbing > desending

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    Regardless who you do it with, unless your electric bill is in excess of $150 - $200 EVERY month ($2,400 per year) then it's not worth. Also, the solar panels degrade in efficiency fairly quickly, and you're stuck with 20 years.

    I run my central AC maybe an hour on really warm nights, just to cool the bedrooms. So the majority of the year it's not running. But for truth in advertising, I didn't install the AC (it was here when we bought the house) and it's too small a unit for the current size of the house. We added on 700 square feet after buying it.

    My take is that on average it's just not that hot here in OC - not worth the added expense. You will not get off the grid with solar, so you would still be paying SCE or your municipal supplier every month. On average. If you have a pool, it would make sense to go solar just for that. But not for whole house. My $.02.

    Just noticed you're in Anaheim like me. Our municipal utility is cheaper than SCE, and I don't think you'd save much. I'd have to look at my current bill to get the KwH rate, though.
     
  3. chevrolegs

    chevrolegs Active Member

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    Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, I don't live in Anaheim anymore. I moved out to Bakersfield where it's super hot during the summer and super cold during the winter.
     
  4. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors Climbing > desending

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    Just looked at PG&E rates (assuming Bakersfield serviced by PG&E) and their baseline rate is under 15 cents per kwH. You go over that as you exceed the baseline, which in my experience is set pretty low. But averaged over the year?

    Residential Schedules: E-1, EM, ES, ESR, ET Tiered Energy Charges $0.14784 ES = ($0.02300) ET = $0.07721 ES and ET $0.04892 $0.14707 $0.17028 $0.25859 $0.31859 $0.31859

    See http://www.greenerbakersfield.com/2009/03/08/understanding-your-bakersfield-pge-electric-bill/
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2014
  5. Salty

    Salty New Member

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    I believe they (Solar City) also have the option to raise the rate by 2.9%/year. That could raise the rate to ~$.30/kWh by the end of 20 years. And after 20 years, the panels have to be replaced due to decreased efficiency.
     
  6. RustyIron

    RustyIron Rob S.

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    Several months back I was looking into solar, and doing a lot of math to figure out the cost/savings. Most of the "deals" being offered by these dealers are essentially "lease" agreements, not unlike a car lease, where you end up paying a premium in the long run so you don't pay much up front.

    For comparison, I use about 1,000 kWh per month. I was looking at filling my south-facing rooves with 8 kW of panels, which would bring me down to buying only a little from Edison.

    I interviewed several big companies, I think Solar City was one. Verengo was another; those guys are crooks, offering the worst deal of any of them. Through the best lease deal I could find, I would save about $50 a month. This is doing my math. The companies won't really quote you absolute numbers. That kind of savings wasn't enough to get me to pollute the front of my house with ugly panels and make a commitment for the next twenty years.

    I also consulted a buddy who does a big electrical contracting. He's done some nice custom installations, and his price is $5/w, or $40,000 for my own system. If I was to purchase the equipment and do it myself, it would cost between $20,000 and $25,000. Break-even would be six years out, but I finally decided it wouldn't be worth the hassle.

    Another friend signed up with one of the solar companies to BUY their system. They paid much more than $5/watt and got it financed. Now they pay more for electricity, but in ten years they'll have their own solar system. I wouldn't recommend getting hornswoggled into such a deal.

    The big savings is to buy it and do it yourself. Moderate savings can be had by signing a twenty year agreement with one of the solar companies. Definitely shop around and don't let them push you into anything. They WILL try to manipulate you with leading questions designed to sway your better judgement.
     
  7. g-dub

    g-dub Member

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    Funny you ask. My wife spent 30 minutes on the phone getting the hard sell from solar city this evening. No straight answers, lots of pushiness. Lots of bad reviews online saying the same thing. No longer interested.
     
  8. destroyer

    destroyer I build jumps

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    Solar City and Vivant have been hitting the streets hard up here for the last two years. They've installed a lot of systems. I hang out with a couple of realtors and they said it's been hard to sell houses that have a solar lease contract. Something to think about since 20 years is a long time even if you just purchased your home.


    EDIT:


    I found this thread interesting. It's from a So Cal reef tank forum. A lot of these guys have electric bills between $200-600 a month to run their equipment and AC which is why many have gone solar. They bring a lot of questions, ideas, and concerns to the table from the discussion. It's worth the read if serious about getting solar. http://www.socalireefs.com/forums/showthread.php?53485-The-official-solar-thread
     
  9. surftime

    surftime New Member

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    also keep this in mind - most of us move a few times. You guys sound young, looking to get married, dont count on being in the same place for too many years. I know you can transfer the panels but still, its one more thing
     
  10. jimw2112

    jimw2112 Member

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    We rent a house in the high desert. Owners of the house let us deal direct with edison. Owners of the house bought the solar"system" before all these leasing companies came into the picture. We pay $0, and every once in awhile we get a check. Our neighbors recently got a system on the lease deal. They had a ridiculous energy bill, so they save a couple hundred bucks a month with the solar lease.
     
  11. bing!

    bing! Active Member

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    I sat thru a couple of presentations. The best scenario is you break even and the company makes its money off the subsidy. That means you entered into a long long commitment and paid somebody to make money off your real estate, and you guaranty their profit. That's from the contractual obligation of a minimum amount of monthly charge even when the system doesn't produce enough.
     
  12. harosocalrider

    harosocalrider New Member

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    I just had solar installed about 2 months ago (20 miles east of San Diego) and even though our bill is not that high we did it more to up the value of our house and bought the system so we own it free and clear, Just didn't like the idea of someone else getting the rebates from sdg&e or raising the rate.
     
  13. chevrolegs

    chevrolegs Active Member

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    Thanks for the posts. Looks like I'll have to do some math and calculate the savings. Out here in bakersfield I've noticed a lot of homes with panels lately. I also have some co workers who just bought brand new houses that came with panels (leased). 20 years is a LONG time... And I know I don't want to live in bakersfield forever.. Haha I have some homework to do. Thanks again.

    image.jpg Heres a picture of the first thing that was moved in. :)
     
  14. nmeofun

    nmeofun Member

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    My wife would kill me if I set the temp at 74. We splurge from time to time at 79, otherwise it's at 81.
     
  15. Kriller134

    Kriller134 Member

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    an enve v10 hanging on the wall with match the decor of your house perfectly
     
  16. jcampbell

    jcampbell going Gods speed since 75

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    Holy hot balls.
     
  17. Formu1fan

    Formu1fan Slow Down, Slower Up

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    I did quite a bit of research on solar for our client last year for implementation at one of our sites (in Arvin, not too far from bakersfield) This was at a larger scale than the average home, but not by much.

    I have found that if you purchase through a solar wholesaler (such as http://www.wholesalesolar.com/) you can buy sets that can be tied into your grid. This means that if you're not using electricity during the day, say if you're at work, the energy generated will be sold back to the utility as a credit. PG&E does do this. If you buy yourself, then have a contractor instal it, it will be a huge expense up front, but you will not have any leasing obligations. You own everything outright. That will make selling your house much easier and increase the value quite a bit. For our site, we were able to pay off the system in 15 years. Some simple math and you can figure out how long it will take to pay yours off. PM me if you need help.

    Just my two cents
     
  18. chevrolegs

    chevrolegs Active Member

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    I'd love to own the system outright, but we ran out of money furnishing haha. Is anyone familiar with what the "true up" bill is at the end of the year?


    i would not be able to sleep in those temps.. Haha.. At my apartment I would keep it at 70 24/7 and it was great. 74 at the house is unbearable sometimes.. I can't imagine setting it any higher.
     
  19. MnMDan

    MnMDan Member

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    Architect here.

    I've done projects that have solar from residential scale all the way up to nearly megawatt systems that cover entire roofs. With most residential roofs, and because of current regulations, if you produce more than you use, you will not receive a check back from your local utility. The reason behind this is that the distribution and generation of electricity was broken into two parts. If you want to get paid for your excess that you pump back into the grid, you have to register (and be regulated) as a utility.
    Strike One...payback period extends because that cash doesn't roll back to you.

    Panel life is strike two...the best panels on the market in terms of efficiency, durability, and longevity are SunPower's. Haven't had them on a small install yet, but their efficiency is 15% better than the next guy, and they have a guarantee about their performance degradation over time. But they are priced for that.

    How to mount them is strike 3. Most of the solar guys are either roofers, electricians, or franchisers that don't know anything about the other two. My suggestion is that whomever you deal with, I'd start with trolling custom builders and remodelers working in Country Club Communities behind gates. Hiring them will ensure they get the right roofers and right electricians to get your system installed correctly, and also add value by being able to identify other inefficiencies that most residential solar vendors can't provide. You'll pay more, but you'll save more.

    Being in Bakersfield, most payback periods end up being in the 10-15 year range.

    1st...find out how much you use and where you are using it. You'll save more energy by being aware of its use. Second is to simply replace inefficiency as it breaks with efficiency. Final step is to generate your own power.
     
  20. Aviatrix

    Aviatrix Active Member

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    I have a quote coming from an electrician any day now for a system for my house. If I do it, I plan to buy outright. None of that "leasing" BS. Had a different contractor over to look at doing some other work on the house yesterday. He's 87 and been in the business his entire adult life, so he's got a lot of experience. He told me he just got a check for $110 from SCE from his solar system on his house in Tustin. My parents have been solar for the past 15 years (I'm guessing but its been a LONG time). They got a time of day meter (meaning they typically sell at a high rate and buy at a low rate). When my dad first did it, it cost something like $18k, but then he got $9k back from the state. His payback was 7 years when he first put it in. Then deregulation happened. I'll have to ask him what the payback actually came out to be. I just remember him going out every morning with his coffee and chuckling as the meter ran backward :lol:
     

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