Originally Posted by kioti A friend and I came across a group of people standing around a deceased mountain biker in Laguna Coast a few years +1. I have never heard of people dieing from mountain biking either!
We urge them to take our help but any conscious, oriented adult has the right to make their own decision regarding their care; even if their decision is stupid! The patient then signs an AMA (Against Medical Advice) form stating that they are refusing treatment/transport and, most importantly, that they assume all responsibility and liability for themselves up to and including death.
I got hit in the head by my longboard at Trestles once. I buzzed the gate at Nixon's house and the paramedics came down. Got my name and birthday right but didn't know the day or date. They started getting concerned and my buddy said, "Dude, he's a surfer.. Ask him about the waves!" It was about 10 years ago in Laguna Coast Wilderness Park, and I don't know why the man died. He was an older guy, and it was a flat area so it didn't appear he'd crashed. We thought it might be a heart attack after making that steep climb out of the parking lot, but never found out for sure. I didn't know how long he'd been there, but went ahead and checked for breathing and pulse. No discernible vital signs. We waited for the rescue crew to get on scene; then continued our ride.
Funny and true story: When I suffered an Exercise-Induced Anaphylactic Attack while out running, I called 911 for fear if I drove myself to the ER I wouldn't make it and cause harm to others while behind the wheel. After receiving the astronomical statements from the Emergency Agencies the City FD threw me into collections. Trying to clear the matter up w them (I sent a CC # that is linked to my FSA), the clerk said the FD's system doesn't recognize that type of card. WHAT?? So now I have to pay interest. I asked the clerk: So I guess next time I need medical assistance, to avoid this headache, my other option was to die. She chuckled at that.....:lol:
I don't understand that part. What is FSA? There has been at least a couple of deaths recently. One was a 40 year old man out in Palm Springs dying of dehydration. I think it was just last year. Many from this board did a memorial ride on the Fullerton Loop. A little before that, a 60 year old man died from a crash if my memory serves me right. Both victims were Asian males. I am sure others can chime in with more details since the two tragedies were discussed here quite extensively.
As long as we are counting MTB tradgedies, A Gentlemen died at the top of I think I Can in El Moro a couple years back, massive heart attack if I recall. He was experienced and fit.
i believe an older gentleman also passed away on the main divide, in between four corners and the peak a few years back.
Then what if the victim who is clearly too disoriented for anything insists on getting into his car and driving home? Can you get the police involved since you are not authorized or trained to subdue the victim? Can the police do that to keep him from endangering not just himself, but others?
Just a note - Gene, now when you call 911 - the first thing you are asked is; 'fire, paramedics, or police' it almost caught me off guard today. We were resting under a tree on the pavement in the foothill ranch area, and witnesses some VERY suspicious activity that looked like a possible break-in. Not knowing if incorporated on not, I knew I could call 911 and asked to be transferred to the local - whoever that was. When I said 'Police' - she asked where I was, I told her, then she took the information regarding the situation and my name. While I do keep the numbers of all the parks in my phone, it the situation was dire enough - 911 would be in my top 2 calls to make... Some time ago, two of us riding Aliso one night when we came up on a bad crash on Rock-it, bad arm/shoulder injury. We showed them how to make a sling with a tube, made him take a pain killer - tried to help them out, but the two said they could get the bikes down and out. They said they'd call the ranger when they got to the main trail - I made sure they had the number and they were good and we were off. It was their first time there...Sure enough as we finished with Coyote and Dripping cave and were pedaling back to the park (by cholla) we ran into them on the main fire road by the entrance to coyote and it was almost dark. They said they reached the ranger and he'd be there soon, at this point the injured rider was not looking so good - but they insisted they'd be okay. We got to the car, I had to be sure - we drove around to the main parking lot and the ranger was locking the gate, but just arrived a few minutes before us and met the guys at the last part of the pavement. He was the only one on duty and was at Santiago Oaks and was stuck in traffic getting back. They were thankful we came back to check on them. Next time I will call the ranger as well. That is why when we ran across the kids - we didn't take no for an answer, helped them out before dark. You just never know, better to be safe than sorry... Karma - I know I need ALL the good stuff I can get, and if was my kid or a close friend, I would appreciate all someone would do for them.
Yes, they always ask "what is your emergency?" What I meant is if I know which local authorieties to call, like in the Santa Ana'a for example, I will get a quicker response if I called forest dispatch than if I called 911 cause the 911 operator is going to transfer me to them anyway. They will call other angencies to get involved if they need more assistance or resources. I'm sure if these incidents happened on your local streets like a car accident, house on fire or a crime being commited.., by all means, call 911. When talking about out in the wilderness, the local agencies(FS nad Park Rangers) know the area better and can at least get to you or be in contact with those 1st responders if you don't have the ability to. There was another instance while on TAV in which I ran into 3 hikers in El Moro at the beginning of Redtail/Rattlesnake and 1 of them was cramping, dehydrated and signs of heat exhaustion. There were 2 other hikers there assisting who weren't with them talking to the 911 operator trying to explain which trail they were on. I called the El Moro park dispatcher and asked if they have heard about this and they said yes, but could not relay any info to the paramedics who were unsure of the location. I told them I was with the victim and where and that I would ride out to meet the EMTs on Bommer as they were entering from Ridge Park. The dispatcher said he would relay that to the EMT's and to look for me. When I met the EMTs, they said they had no clue where the victims were and followed me in. Not sure why they couldn't use the caller's phone GPS. Maybe it just didn't have that capability or the caller didn't know how to enable it. Turned out the hikers started from the Los Trancos lot, walked along PCH, into El Moro to No Dogs/No Name, down Ticketron and up to Redtail/Rattlesnake. That's a long hike for sure and no way could have made it back to even the main lot in El Moro is his condition. In this case and the others I mentioned before, none of them with exception of the broken hip was an "emergency" where someone was bleeding or dying. Thinking you're lost in Aliso or El Moro is also no need to call 911. This reminds me of the hikers who called 911 cause someone was cramping and were lost on Upper HJ. The 911 operator called the FS who went out and got them off the mountain.
Gene is there a Sticky with all the relevant ranger numbers? I have El Moro but not lcwp whiting etc... or is that a no go to post.
Yes, it's in the "Trailhead and Trail Condition Forums" http://www.socaltrailriders.org/forum/trailhead/56777-parks-phone-numbers-links-park-info.html O.C. Sheriff's Dept: (714) 647-7000 Trabuco Ranger District: (951) 736-1811 These numbers will get you in contact with the local park rangers. As I stated before, you'll have to assess the situation and determine if what you have is an "emergency". If so, call 911. Just remember, if you don't know where you're at, how will they know?
gene has a great point. I tune in to the OCFD scanner a lot since i live next to oaks or if i hear a oc fire chopper flying overhead. A couple of weeks ago a young lady fell off her bike at LCWP close to laurel and willow trails. The dispatcher kept mentioning the names of the trails saying that the biker that called in gave her that location to go by. you could hear the responders going back and forth asking for coordinates and trying to figure out which staging area(nix or willow) off of the 133 they were responding too. The chopper was on its way and was also asking for a location and even el moro got thrown in the mix as a possible location. the dispatcher also told them that the ranger was going to meet them at the end of willow (sounded like one of the bikers had called the ranger) and thats how they finally found their way to the victem. It was crazy how long it took them and how they were all over the place. The rangers know these remote locations way better than anyone else and can help get the responders to the right place.
1. If the person does not consent to being given first aid, you should not force it. If the person is unconscious, consent is implied. 2. California has a Good Semiritan Law to protect you if your first aid efforts go awry. It protects from liability for negligence, but not recklessness. 3. As a general rule California law does not require you to give first aid. You can video an injured person bleeding to death instead of calling for help and you will not be liable. 4. If you get sued, your homeowner's insurance will probably cover it.
What is with Borrego these days? Today around 6:15, saw a woman walking back her bike. One of her knees was bleeding. I helped her with cleaning up, and off she went. It was pretty clear that she was alert, so no worries there. Then just minutes later, saw a man riding against traffic on Borrego. Blood was streaming down one of his knees, but he on his bike pedaling away. So that was 3 injured riders just in my last two trips up Borrego. Be careful out there.
