Ride Report Palm Canyon Epic no more?

Awesome, thanks for the pic. I sent Jim Foote at the BLM this picture in addition to the GPS coordinates so he knows exactly what we are talking about.

 

Not on horse back and Indians can drive whatever they want out there, Fed rules don't apply to them on tribal lands.

 

No mountain bikes.......does that mean cycle cross bikes are ok?

 

Per the BLM in Palm Desert, the trail is open to Walking, Hiking and Mountain Biking. They do not know why there are signs posted to state otherwise. There is also no plans to change this.

 

Well, those signs amount to nothing more than fire wood then.

Ride on!

 

Told you so. Just ignore signs you don't know to be legitimate. Anyone can make a sign that says anything.

 

*** Indian Potrero and Vandeventer are off-limits to mountain bikes *****

Bad news folks. I heard back from James Foote, Monument Manager for the BLM in Palm Springs. He confirmed that the signs were erected by the Agua Caliente Tribe. He also indicated the Tribe wasn't way off base in erecting them. In summary:

Bikes are no longer allowed on Indian Potrero and Vandeventer trails. While riding the trail towards Palm Springs, when you reach the Indian Potrero trailhead, you must continue north on Palm Canyon Trail all the way to the Sand Wash Road. In addition, you no longer can by-pass the Sand Wash Road via Vandeventer, you must continue on Sand Wash Road to Dunn. From there you can still connect to HBV, Wildhorse, and Art Smith.

He indicated the tribe will be erecting new signage to clarify which trails are bike legal. If you choose to ride the newly closed trails, you will be poaching, and you risk encountering the Tribal rangers.

------------------------e-mail from James Foote -----------------------


Hi Osmar,
I met yesterday with staff from the Agua Caliente Band of Cahuilla Indians to discuss the signage issue. The Tribe will be installing a new sign at the southern intersection of the Palm Canyon Trail and Indian Potrero Trail on BLM lands in section 36. It will indicate that mountain bikes should proceed on the Palm Canyon Trail northward. Should bikes continue northward on the Indian Protrero Trail, it will ultimately lead them onto a small segment of the trail on Tribal lands in section 24, thereby violating the Tribe's general prohibition of bikes on Tribal trails.

However, the Tribe will allow mountain bikes to continue on the Palm Canyon Trail in section 24 to its intersection with the Dry Wash Trail, and proceed east on the Dry Wash Trail to Dunn Road. Although the small segment of the Palm Canyon Trail south of the intersection with the Dry Wash Trail, as well as the westernmost segment of the Dry Wash Trail are on Tribal land, the Tribe has agreed to allow mountain bikes on these segments.

The Tribe will post the East Fork Loop Trail, Vandeventer Trail, and Fern Canyon Trail as closed to bicycles. Specifically: (1) The sign indicating that the East Fork Loop Trail is closed to bikes will be posted at its intersection with the Dry Wash Trail in section 25. Only about 1/8-mile of the East Fork Loop Trail occurs on non-Tribal lands. The posting at this location serves to discourage bikers from traveling this 1/8-mile segment of trail only to turn around upon encountering the Tribal segment of the trail that is closed to bikes. Cyclists can continue eastward on the Dry Wash Trail to Dunn Road. (2) The sign indicating the Fern Canyon Trail is closed to bicycles will be posted at its intersection with the Wild Horse Trail on BLM lands in section 18. Only about 1/8- to 1/4-mile of the Fern Canyon Trail occurs on BLM lands. Similar to the circumstance with the East Fork Loop Trail, the posting at this location discourages bikers from traveling this short segment of trail on BLM lands only to turn around when they get to the closed segment on Tribal lands. (3) The sign indicating the Vandeventer Trail is closed to bicycles will be posted at its intersection with the Hahn Buena Vista Trail on BLM lands in section 18. This serves to discourage bikers from traveling towards both the Vandeventer Trail on Tribal lands (closed to bikes) and the northern end of the East Fork Loop Trail on Tribal lands in section 19 (also closed to bikes), only to turn around when reaching segments of these trails on Tribal lands.

In summary, mountain bikers traveling north on the Palm Canyon Trail can continue on the Palm Canyon Trail to its intersection with the Dry Wash Trail, turn east on the Dry Wash Trail and proceed to Dunn Road, then turn north on Dunn Road to pursue a number of opportunities: (1) continue on Dunn Road to Cathedral City Cove, (2) turn east on the Art Smith Trail, or (3) turn west on the Hahn Buena Vista Trail, from which a biker can continue north and access either the Wild Horse Trail or Dunn Road Trail (note: the Tribe has agreed to allow bikers to use the Wild Horse Trail and Dunn Road Trail where it crosses Tribal lands in section 7).

The BLM works cooperatively with the Agua Caliente Band of Cahuilla Indians to manage lands within the Santa Rosa and San Jacinto Mountains National Monument. The posting of signs as described above is to prevent trespass by bicyclists where bikes are prohibited on Tribal lands, and provide opportunities for mountain bikers to connect from Palm Canyon to Cathedral City Cove (via Dunn Road), Palm Springs (via the Wild Horse and Thielman Trails), or Palm Desert (via the Art Smith Trail). I believe this action provides a beneficial service to responsible riders who want to do the right thing, i.e., not trespass on lands that are closed to their particular activity. With the signing installed as I described, riders who comply with the signs can be assured they are not violating any rules.

Thank you for alerting me about the signs you encountered. It facilitated my working with the Tribe to arrive at an acceptable solution that is consistent with the rules.

 

The signs at Indian Potrero and Vandeventer/Dry Wash are now gone. Only the white man gets to renege on agreements with the indians. I'm Cherokee so I rode them both.

 

Overall, it's bad news that the tribe keeps bikes out and that our government is willing to make a land swap that only benefits the tribe, not the US public.

 

As in someone tore them out and just threw them aside.......

OR

As in someone changed their mind and had them removed.

 

Land swap has not happened yet.....the tribe already owns the land where a portion of these trails criss-cross.

As indicated in my post, the tribe agreed to remove the new (confusing) signs but they will be erecting new ones to make it very clear which trails are closed to bikes.

I happen to believe that once the new signs are up, 95% of mountain bikers will avoid the closed trails. However, around 5% will probably will poach the trails, and I'm sure most of them will not get caught (I have never personally seen a ranger out there, and I've ridden the trail about 20 times)

However, as indicated above, the Tribe has legal authority to close off Palm Canyon, Sand Wash Road, Wildhorse, etc. Busting one or two mountain bikers on Indian Potrero would be the perfect excuse to close all the trails that currently criss-cross the Cahuilla Indian reservation.

That's all I have to say about this Palm Canyon thing....I've already communicated with Mt. Bike Bill and he's gonna update his website to reflect the new rules........see y'all on the trails. :bang:

 

Wonder what the tribe has against bikes?

 

Don't know but I for one am not willing to risk my scalp to find out.

 

That seemed like a slightly racist comment.

I would also like to point out that while there is evidence of scalping prior to the arrival of Europeans to the Americas, i firmly believe that Colonists were probably the larger offenders of this practice. Once you start paying for Native American scalps (men, women, and children) then all sorts come out and do horrible things.

Sorry, just some misconceptions about Native Americans really irritate me. The worst is the term "Indian Giver". Ya.... who gave land and then cheated it away from the rightful owners? It was not Indians at all. US Government.

 

Does Indian burn irritate you too?

 

I've never heard of that term. I wouldn't even know what it is or where it originates. So, no. For all i know its like the reference of Chinese Food. That's not racist, just simply stating a cuisine that originates from China.

 

Back on topic kids..

Interesting that the BLM had two different answers really.. I did ask specifically about the "Hahn Buena Vista Trail" as shown in the photo... So, are those signs down now?

 

lol!

 

Ok someone interpret for me (MBJ) does this mean we can still do our normal PCE (Normal being relative) like our route last time?

 

Yes.....for the most part. We will have to make 1 detour....unless the new signs aren't up. ;-)